WARRICK COUNTY DRAINAGE BOARD
MINUTES OF JULY 24, 2000
Jack Pike, Vice-Chairman opened meeting of July 24, 2000. Larry Barr made motion to approve minutes, seconded by† Mr. Pike. Motion carried 2-0.
MEMBERS PRESENT;†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Jack Pike, Vice-Chairman; Larry††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† ††††††††††† ††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Barr, Secretary; and Mike Irvin, Surveyor
ALSO PRESENT;:††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Shane Clements, Bruce Miller and Ralph
SUMMIT POINTE SUBDIVISION
Shane Clements, Eagle Construction,† Last Tuesday, Mike, Lee McCellan, the Martins,† thereís an older Martin and a† younger Martin that share the ownership of the field and they lease it out to some farmers who were also present at the meeting. The were quite uncooperative with us, denied access to their property.†† So under the recommendation of Mike and Lee, weíre going to put the drainage swale back
To its original intention and maybe put like a chuck dam or a straw bale to help force the water into the field. Maybe cut a new ditch across the property.
MIKE:† That will place it back into what the Commissioners requested. Original design approval. Mr. Martin clearly stated that in his opinion that that ditch was 5 feet deep in the past† and its only about 2 Ĺ.
The Pecka boys were the ones that were there and they seemed pretty positive that there was nothing wrong with the ditch, even though Mr. Martin admitted that it was deeper than† it was now.
SHANE: And† thereís a 6 foot ditch, I mean† 6 foot culvert for their field crops, so obviously , you donít put a 6 foot ditch in for a 2 Ĺ footÖÖ.
MIKE: At one point, I thought Mr. Martin might agree when I pointed out that what they were offering was to clean his ditch and slope it for him.
SHANE: We offered to pay for it, I mean, I was going to pay for all the costs.
MIKE: And I thought† that at that point he might go for it but he didnít. The Peck boys started in at the end of the meeting, they were discussing what the Commissioners wanted. I agreed that Öput it back the way it was and force the water thru the field where it belongs.
LARRY:† So, if Shane does what, puts it back the way we wanted it to begin with, why then heís done his responsibility† and then if Mr. Martin doesnít like it heíll have to come before† the Board.
SHANE: These streets may still flood in heavier rains.
MIKE:† Well, quite honestly, what itís going to take care of is the Anderson Road area, will be blocked off from any flood waters. The area along Martin is going to flood still,
Until that ditch is washed back out† so it can discharge. But it may not take too long, so there may not be a significant amount of flooding at all.
JACK:† You know one thing thatís been bothering me about this thing for a long time. Weíve added different subdivisions to this area and everytime we have a rain down there nobody seems to be too concerned about it until weíve had two or three good floods.
How come all this wasnít† pointed out by the engineering staff or somebody when we
Raised so many objections, or at least I did to the drainage in that area. I realize that you werenít available at the time, it was other people had the property before you and you kind of came in on the tail end of something thatÖÖ.
SHANE: Yes, itís been something of an experience, let me tell you.
MIKE: Well, not toÖ.I think actually it was probably the significant rainfalls that we had that prompted all this. Up until then, what I heard what the flooding problems were was mud washing out of the newer developments into the street and flowing down the streets and† we justÖ.
JACK: This had been going on since 96.
MIKE:† So, these comments about it not working, I drive down there and I see mud from new construction, so we took it that most of the pipes in the system had mud in them.
STEVE: Also too, I think a lot of water did go through this farm field that we talked about earlier, but since the ditch has deepen themselves the bulk of the water kind of went along the north side of your subdivision and wants to follow that line and as more time goes on, those rear ditches get deeper and it draws more water that way.
MIKE: In part it wasnítÖ.it did some of it itself by washing out all of the watershed breaks and forming a new channel. But you didnít hear anything in the beginning, because the ditches for the discharges were open and working properly.
JACK: Well, thatís so long ago and Lee McClellan came in and when they were surveying a piece of property over there, they come to find out the ditches is not where itís supposed to be.
MIKE: Yes, and they corrected it.
JACK:† A number of different things like that, the curb wasnít at the right height to begin with, streets werenít† thick enough, its just been one thing after another in that particular area.
MIKE: Well, I agree, I donít know about streets or anything, that has nothing to do with the drainage, but it did continually cascade down once it started and we started getting those 6-8 inch rains, which is probably in reality what probably broke it out and recut a new ditch behind it anyway.
JACK:† In other words, what your saying is, what your going to do is put some bales of straw in there and build up a dam. Itís going to wash that ditch out.
MIKE: No, the area that heís got to work on will, there will be no ditch there at all, there were no ditches planned in that area, that was a watershed break, water never should have been behind those houses where this problem exists, this specific problem, weíre talking about. Itís washed out 6 foot of dirt, so in essence what heís going to do is fill it back in the way it was supposed to be, separate those two watersheds again instead of the Martin Road side of the development and the Anderson side being connected together, they were never supposed to be, they should have been separated. Heís going to put that back in an approved condition the way it should have been working. But in essence, your example is right, there will be a dam built, but the dam should have been there from the very beginning and was when it was approved and built.
SHANE: Thereís exposed utility lines, thatís how deep the ditch has dug itself, thereís boxes, utility boxes and lines laying in the middle of the ditch. I contacted the two home owners, one of them will probably go thru their property, cause thereís really no access to this ditch from any easy place off the road, so I have to go thru some home owners property to carry this dirt back.
JACK: I appreciate your report, I do anyway, hopefully this will solve some of their problems, but at this point, I donít want to release anything on that cause I still want to hold somewhat responsible until this kind of gets resolved. Iím not sure about Larryís view point.
LARRY: Well, I think we told him two weeks ago that if he would make the† effort and come back, that we would tell him what we could do and† then your telling me that we canít tell him so. Shane, canít tell you anything today, bud.
MIKE: Well, in response to your comment, it isnít going to be done until he gets his dirt work done. So, Iím not sure he was asking for approval anyway. He canít do it until he can put it back and I canít inspect it and say it is back to the condition it was prior to the problem that started when it washed out.
JACK: Thatís basically the question, I kind of hate getting after them. Thank you, Sir.
Bruce Miller, Drainage culvert.
LARRY: Make motion to table
JACK: Motion to table, all in favor say aye† motion carried 2 ayes† So moved.
Paradise Estates, drainage approval.
LARRY: Make motion to table† Jack seconded al those in favor† 2 ayes motion carried
Don Ashley††††††††† $133.33
Dave Rector†††††††† $100.00
Jack Pike††††††††††††† $100.00
Larry Barr††††††††††† $100.00
LARRY: I make a motion we approve the claims.
JACK: So ordered, all in favor say aye 2 ayes. Bruce, you just got in the door. We tabled it, but since youíre here lets hear it.
ELLERBUSCH DITCH-PORTER CULVERT
BRUCE MILLER: Mike,† I would like you to sort of give a staff report basically on the problem as you see it on the Porter† culvert.
PORTER CULVERT CONT:
MIKE:† Well,† there is no such report, I didnít even know you were going to be here until I got a message.
BRUCE: Let me go back about 2 years ago when we were doing Windsor Pointe Subdivision. This subdivision is in the town of Newburgh, but the water coming out of that subdivision and everything in the town of Newburgh in that section above that is draining down in that region and going down the Ellerbusch ditch. The culvert underneath Mr. Porterís property which is near the corner of 261, excuse me, 662 and Ellerbusch is undersized, so what we were going to do is sort of wait and see if that thing ended up blowing out and then replace it with a larger pipe. In heavy rainstorms that thing is holding and not breaking lose. The County and I donít want to speak for Mike, indicated if we could get Mr. Porter to buy the pipe, the County may consider going ahead and installing that pipe. I donít think Mr. Porter is going to want to do that and what I am offering is Bearington Development Group will pay for the pipe if the County would consider installing that pipe. So, thatís sort of where we are.
STEVE SHERWOOD:† Do you have a size in mind that your engineer recommends?
MILLER: The pipe was 95, its eliptical† (?)† 95Ö..
MILLER:† Yes, I think so and that would match the same pipe that you gentleman approved in the next drive-way crossing which is about 200 feet closer to the highway 662 and that was allowed for Mr. Willis to put in for that piece of property. So, Iím here
To ask you if I would buy the pipe if the County would go ahead and install that pipe.
STEVE: Same length that is there now?
MILLER: Yes, sir. The problem that itís causing is, it is causing back pressure that the
pipe cannot handle the volume of the water from that region, not only from the† Newburgh general area but coming down Ellerbusch and it is causing an obstruction and a† back pressure flow which is causing flooding upstream on Ellerbusch as well as in Windsor and into Newburgh.
LARRY: Whatís the gentlemanís name that owns the culvert now?
MILLER: John Porter.
LARRY: And he has no problem with you putting a bigger culvert in?
MIKE: He would sign off.
STEVE: And that portion is a regulated drain? That quarter mile North of 662 East at Ellerbusch, is that right, Mike?
MILLER: Iím willing to do that because I just want to keep the water out in front of the Subdivision.
JACK: Will you check and make sure the size is sized right, between you and Steve?
MIKE: Iíll approve the pipe size, but as he pointed out weíve already approved the pipe sizes right there in that immediately area, so we know heís right.
JACK: Heís right, ok
STEVE: Iíll check the existing pipe under the State Highway and reconfirm the drive-way pipe size we issued.
MIKE: Youíll find the State Highways undersized and high.
STEVE: Yes, I think its just a 6 footer.
MIKE: Ok, soÖ.the County Highway going to do it or the Drainage Board? The reference he made was when we were all talking about cleaning that ditch and putting it back in shape, we had projects going on down there at the time and I did say we could drop the pipe in and have it put in if it was delivered. But our contracts are gone of course, so Drainage Board will have to know whoís going to drop it in and if its Drainage
Board Iíll have to hold a hearing to get set back up again. If I remember correctly, we didnít cleanÖ.did we clean all the way to 662?
MILLER: You cleaned across the Porter property and across the Willis property down to 662, thatís it.
MIKE: Weíll probably have to go make an inspection and see if thereís anything to clean while weíre down there.
JACK: I have no problem doing it, but Iím not sure who should be doing it, the Drainage Board or the Highway.
LARRY: Why donít you make an inspection (to Mike) if thereís more work the Drainage Board needs to do then for no more than it would cost we could include that in the project if thereís work that doesnít need to be done then thereís no reason the Highway† Department canít go in and do it. But they are exceptionally busy right now, Iím not making excuses for them but they are busy now, but here again, whatís it going to take a half day to go in there
MIKE: Ok, weíll go in and make an inspection and if it can be done by us, weíll bring it back in two weeks and set up the project.
MILLER: Fantastic thank you, then Iíll wait to hear from you gentlemen on when you want the pipe out there.
MIKE: Yes, youíll know for sure, call my office at† the end of the week and Iíll tell you what the inspection showed and what its probably going to turn out to be.
MILLER: Iíll do that on Friday, is there a County form that I need to have Mr. Porter sign indicating that weíre going to replace it. You would just like to have a note in writing from Mr. Porter thatÖ..
MIKE: No, he will be sent a waiver and it will detail what weíre going to do on his property and if he signs it and returns it he agrees, if he doesnít and weíre in a position weíll have to hold a hearing.
JACK: Ok, Bruce?
BRUCE MILLER: Thank you, Gentlemen.
JACK: Is there anything else to come before the Drainage Board?
LARRY: Steve, did you, Mike said you might have a report on this Paradise Estates, do You?
STEVE:† I met with people after the last Drainage Board meeting, I went out and looked at the structures with Jerry Wallace and it appears that the one structure, the one that theyíre complaining about running along their back yard, that structure is undersized and running the watershed and that pipe will probably be replaced by the Warrick County Highway Department upon completion of my evaluation. However, if thereís structures that are downstream, this gentleman that they purported that puts in a 24 inch pipe, I did not get out there to look at it cause itís about a half mile off the road way, but the ditch runs out side† the road right-of-way deep inÖ.near no road way and they were probably told correctly, that itís a civil issue between them and their neighbor whoís put an inferior size structure in a large waterway, however its not a regulated drain under Drainage Board jurisdiction. Thereís really nothing the Highway Dept can do that far outside the road right-of-way, cause its not backing up far enough to flood the road way.
JACK: Is this the Gardner Road area?
STEVE: Yes, the flooding of the roadway where she says it comes across is because the current structure is undersized. We will take care of that, but weíre going to send more water their way by putting in a larger structure.
LARRY: You and Jerry both looked at that, you said?
JACK: I got a letter here from Walter and Sally Lambert on that same thing, in the Forrest Hills area.
STEVE: I have not re-contacted those people that were here at the last meeting, I will do so as soon as we have a plan in place.
JACK: Iíve been hearing flooding about this thing for about the last 4 years and its basically a kind of a no-mans land. Is there anything else to come before the meeting?
LARRY: I† make a motion we recess.
JACK: A motion has been made and Iíll second it to recess, all those in favor say aye, 2 ayes† those opposed? Motion carries 2-0.