WARRICK† COUNTY DRAINAGE BOARD
AUGUST 30, 2000
Jack† Pike Vice-Chairman opened meeting of August 30, 2000. Larry Barr mad motion to approve minutes of†† July 24, 2000, seconded by Jack Pike. Motion carried 2-0.
MEMBERS PRESENT;††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Jack Pike, Vice-Chairman;† Larry Barr, Secretary;
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Don† Ashley, Attorney for Board and Mike Irvin,
ALSO PRESENT;†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Robert Robinson, Brad Mills, Christopher Wischer
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Bill Bivins, Shane Clements, Lee A. McCellan,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Ralph Blake and Terry White.
MIKE:† Paradise Estates is on Gardner Road
BILL: Bill Bivins, Engineer
MIKE: To refresh everyoneís memory, there was no drainage requirement. The lots are a minimum† of 3.9 acres each and as usual single family residence with a garage, something like that wonít increase any runoff significantly at all.
COMMISSIONER PIKE:† Any questions from the Board?† No. Any questions from the audience?† What is the wishes of the Board?
COMMISSIONER BARR:† I make a motion we approve
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Motion to approve the Paradise Estates drainage† plan.
MIKE: I recommend the approval.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Iíll second it. All in favor say aye, 2 ayes† opposed?† Motion carries 2-0.
MIKE:† I donít know why they didnít show up,† they were notified, but I have a few comments to make. As you recall we agreed to go down and look at the ditch in reference to replacing a culvert. I think Barrington is going to purchase the culvert if we will put it in. The ditch, I have no objections to cleaning the ditch, it could probably use a little straightening up but we also are in receipt of an annexation. The town now owns the property north of this little 200 foot stretch of ditch and south of the 200 foot stretch. Weíre being boxed in. We have a little bitty portion of drain that just happens to be on Porterís property, but the only part we have left is that 200 some odd feet of property.
COMMISSIONER BARR: So what are you trying to tell me?
MIKE:† We need to make arrangements with Newburgh to either maintain that† little stretch or maybe consider getting rid of that 200 plus legal drain. Itís going to be very difficult to maintain.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: We canít maintain it if we canít control all of it.
MIKE: Well, the thing that† bothered me, having it above it wasnít a big deal, but having it below it even† if we were to go clean it, if the other sections arenít clean weíre wasting our money. So, thatís why I say we either need an agreement with Newburgh to either maintain it or assist in the maintaining of it or scheduling or something.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: You need to set up a meeting with Newburgh and work out some arrangements to either they take over and maintain it or an agreement between the County and them.
MIKE:† Ok, and as far as Mr. Millerís, like I say it could use a little straightening out, I donít see why we couldnít go down and do it this time for the last time.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Weíve got a similar problem in Chandler.
MIKE: Yes,† it tends to happen around towns.
COMMISSIONER PIKE:† We do need to work something out.
Jerry Wallace also told of large tree in ditch after this last storm where it intersects with Ellerbusch Road.
He said that is laying in the ditch length wise. He also stated that he didnít know where the line was in reference to our part of the ditch.
MIKE: I will go look to see where it is, but that just emphasises some of the problems weíre going to have not knowing whoís what without going down and looking.
OHIO TOWNSHIP FIRE DEPARTMENT:
COMMISIONER PIKE: Is there anyone here to represent this?
COMMISSIONER BARR: I make a motion to table, 2nd by Commissioner Pike. Motion carried 2-0.
MIKE:† Iíve had some land owners come in. The crossing underneath Southern Railroad where the rip-rap was has been removed. They experienced a significant amount of flooding on the North side of the road because the water, for some odd reason wanted to go down Seitz and make the turn instead of going down the drain thatís on the south side of the tracks. They said once the storm cleared that it started backflowing to the south into Scales-Lipnight ditch, which is odd. But they came in and requested that Seitz be due and we went and looked at it and it could use some cleaning and something done about the rip-rap. I havenít heard a word from the Railroad company after out last discussions in the meeting about the pipe size or anything, but apparently theyíve been in there working because according to the land owner they removed the rip-rap barrier that was under there keeping the water in Scales-Lipnight.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Is this the one that crosses Hackmiester Road?
MIKE: It crosses Hackmiester.
COMMISSIONER BARR: No, it crosses Two Story Road.
MIKE: Thatís right, it starts at Two Story, Scales-Lipnight crosses Hackmeister. So Iím recommending we clean† Seitz and the other part I donít know what to do about. I told them I would bring it up.
COMMISSIONER BARR:† I make a motion we clean Seitz Ditch. 2nd by Commissioner Pike, all in favor
2 ayes, Opposed? None Motion carried.
MIKE:† We made an inspection from State Road 161 to I-64, there are trees in the middle of the channel actively growing, they are on the slopes of both banks, my crew has a novel recommendation, clean the bottom of the creek and mow the banks. Quite frankly, if weíre going to clean the ditch we donít need to mow the banks also. I think they were trying to be thorough. So I would recommend that we clean Robinson Creek.
ROBERT ROBINSON:† This needs a little straightening too when you talk about cleaning it.
MIKE: By nature of cleaning it we straighten out the odd little curves. Now if your talking about major curves, cleaning of course wonít take care of that.
MR. ROBINSON:† It doesnít have any major curves, ok thatís all I wanted to ask about.
COMMISSIONER BARR: I make a motion we clean Robinson Creek. 2nd by Commissioner Pike
All those in favor say aye 2 ayes, Opposed? None . Any questions?† Motion carried.
MATTINGLY HOLD HARMLESS:
CHRISTOPHER WISCHER:† I am here on behalf of John Mattingly† Store-N-Lock LLC and basically weíre requesting permission to construct in a regulated drain, Howard Ditch. Weíve been here, I think the last time was 2 or 3 months ago and we had at that time an agreement which we couldnít† have executed because at that time because Mr. Mattingly proposed he would be responsible for maintenance of the drain and Mr. Ashleyís opinion was that that couldnít be done by the County. The County couldnít give up its obligations in that regard, so weíve met with Mr. Ashley and revised the agreement. Mr. Mattingly has executed a Hold Harmless Agreement which has been approved by Mr. Ashley. So basically today what Iím requesting is that approval be granted to construct in a regulated drain and we have an agreement to that effect we need executed. I believe Mr. Ashley has reviewed all of that.
COMMISSIONER BARR: I make a motion we table it, I havenít seen it.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Is this along the Vanderburgh County Line?
MR. WISCHER: The other aspect of this is that the County is involved in a litigation and thereís an appeal pending at the Court of Appeals, which upon completion of this agreement we have agreed to dismiss the Court of Appeals case.
COMMISSIONER BARR: So, youíre telling us if we donít hop in here and do what you want, youíre goingÖÖÖ
MR. WISCHER: No, that Ďs not what Iím saying.
COMMISSIONER BARR: Thatís what it sounds like.
MR. WISCHER:† What Iím say is that itís proceeding and there are briefs to be filed in the next couple of weeks.
COMMISSIONER BARR: All Iím saying is that Iím one of the 3 people that have to vote on it and I havenít seen it. I donít† care how much youíve put in it, I havenít seen it.
COMMISSIONER PIKE:† Neither have I. Iíll second the motion. All those in favor to table say aye, 2 ayes Opposed?† None. Motion carried.
SHANE CLEMENTS:† Shane Clements, Eagle Construction, 1st Iíd like to say thanks for getting the permission to go onto the property and do the ditch. The last 2 rainfalls, Summit Pointe has not flooded and they has greatly relieved the stress in my life. Probably the next pending issue is that building permits are being held, I need to resolve that matter as quickly as possible, Iíve got 3 homes that need construction, permits issued.
COMMISSIONER BARR: We canít resolve it here.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Thatís at the Commissionerís meeting not at Drainage Board.
MR. CLEMENTS: I donít know if we need to discuss anything or not, Mike?
MIKE: Iíve been contacted by Lee McCellan, initially in our conversations we were requiring a ditch on the North side that drains Basin D to be cut a new channel emergency† overflow to a channel, the recommendation that was made by me to do that was done to relieve the flooding, the immediate flooding problems. After talking to Lee and reviewing the plans, thereís no need to implement that recommendation now that everythingís being put back and the ditches are clean. No longer is the emergency necessary. So, he asked me to clarify that point that I made as a recommendation that itís no longer necessary and I agree with that.
MR CLEMENTS: There are a few pending issues, part of the drainage swale we put back in place, about 30 feet of the 200 feet was too muddy at the time we seeded, so weíll have to go back and reseed that† it was just too muddy to get in there. Then also there was an area drain that was covered, they dug it by hand, it was too muddy to do it by equipment, they dug it out by hand so it would drain, Iím not sure how it looks after the last rainfall. I havenít been back there since. Have you looked at it, Steve, since itsÖÖÖ..
STEVE SHERWOOD: Itís probably still too muddy.
MR. CLEMENTS: Then we have to clean some basins, which I donít believe theyíre too full. Of course, its too muddy to get into the retention basin at this time. I guess Jerry has to go back in the fall and complete the other side of the bank.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Are the any other questions related to Shane?
STEVE SHERWOOD: Still getting some minor erosion at arches and Summit which continues to come out of the section under construction, your† aware of that, weíve talked, soÖ.
MR. CLEMENTS:†† Weíre trying to stabilize that next week andÖ.
STEVE: Just keep monitoring it and policing it as necessary.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Anything else?
MR. CLEMENTS: Thanks again for getting† permission on the land.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: I hope this solves the problem with your subdivision† now that drainage will work in that area, its been a long drawn out affair that, sorry it got to this point, it should have never gotten to this point. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER PIKE:† We have two bills, one from Boonville Standard and Evansville Blueprint, what is the wish of the Board?
COMMISSIONER BARR: I make a motion we approve the claims, 2nd by Commissioner Pike . All in favor say aye, 2 ayes, Opposed? None Motion carried.† 2-0.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Is there anything else to come before this Board?
MIKE:† Brad Mills has something to bring up before the Board.
BRAD MILLS:† Iím Brad Mills representing Jeff Gardner at Sunrise Estates. This is a small 6 lot subdivision at† the corner of Frame and Lincoln. Jack has gone out with us about a week ago and looked at the dam. My main concern is part of the Drainage Boardís comments when they approved the drainage plan for this, there was a comment that we were asked to add to the plat which I have in brackets there and a part that weíre objecting to. What weíre requesting is that we can remove that one sentence that says our inspection indicates that there have been some problems with the dam in the past and may be possible leakage at the dam at this time. We went out and looked at it and I donít believe there was any leakage, Jack,† did you notice anything that you saw wasÖÖ
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Scott and I went out there and looked at it along with you guys and there was some wetness at the bottom because that whole area doesnít drain very well. We asked that you go out and get the SCS Office to look at that and at this point I have not heard a report on that, but that was the request we ask at the meeting out there that you do that before we consider taking this off.
MR. MILLS: Ok, I didnítí have any problem with the rest of the thing, as you know there are some natural springs that are along that area as well, we were just wanting to remove that one sentence and we didnít have any problem with the rest of the dam or any of the comments that you have in there. If that would be acceptable.
COMMISSIONER PIKE:† Basically, they have more control over dams than we do. We wanted their opinion before we took that wording off. That was given to us when we approved this here while back.
We felt like due to some problems weíve had with other areas with dams, it was a good thing to put on. I understand your reluctance to have it on your blueprint, but until we get a determination from SCS, Iím reluctant to take it off.
COMMISSIONER BARR:† Iím not in favor of taking it off at all. They obviously agreed to it at one time or it wouldnít be there, would it?
MR. MILLS: I donít know the answer to that question.
COMMISSIONER BARR: Well, its on there isnít it?
MR. MILLS: Ok, weíll get the SCS report and get back with you.
COMMISSIONER PIKE:† Is there anything else to come before the Drainage Board?
BARRINGTON DEVELOPMENT GROUP:
BRUCE:† Bruce Miller with the Barrington Development Group. I request that, Iím sorry that I was late I was at my engineerís picking up some additional data for Commissioners Meeting today on Wyngate on the street plans. I would request the Drainage Board hear two items that I have on the agenda. One on Wyngate and the other regarding a culvert pipe on the Porter property at Ellerbusch.
COMMISSIONER BARR: I though we had already discussed the Porter property.
COMMISSIONER PIKE:† The only thing we discussed out there was that it was Newburgh and to see if we could work out some sort of agreement.
BRUCE: In a previous meeting we had talked about the pipe size, the original plan Mike, that was submitted, that Barrington would put in was 95x67, 32 feet long, if your recommendation is for anything smaller than that I would request that we go ahead and put the larger size in, needless to say because Barrington is paying for the pipe.
MIKE: The pipe size is fine.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Some of the concerns we have, is that we are out there in no manís land now with our legal drain. We need to work out some sort of agreement with Newburgh since they basically are part of the city of Newburgh now, or the Town of Newburgh versus the County on that drain. We need to work out who is going to be in charge of that. Either we relinquish all of our control and it works out as a mutual agreement between the two. We need to instruct the Surveyor to work up some agreement with Newburgh to see what we can come up with. Thatís how we left it a few minutes ago, but you were not here.
MIKE: Basically Bruce, what your asking , is the County going to put the pipe in that your supplying?
BRUCE: Yes, that would be correct. If that would be approved we were just† coming back to this meeting with a recommendation of the size and if the size if ok and the Drainage Board would approve that I would like to go ahead and pursue that as quickly as we could and work with Mike as far as using a counter supplier to get the pipe delivered, coordinate for the installation of that and then have the pipe billed directly to Barrington so we would assume that.
MIKE: Per the last discussion we had on that the question would be is Drainage Board or Highway going to put it in?
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Since itís a legal drain its Drainage Board. I would look at it that way.
MIKE: Steve, will you help me write a set of specs for the installation of a pipe?
STEVE: I can, the issue though is† Mike has to resolve first since Newburgh has annexed North and South, the systems no longer contiguous with his operating system much as the roadway and weíve had some issues with Newburgh before, they done that to us once before. I canít collect certifiable mileage on the road cause its not contiguous with anything else we maintain , same problem with this drain, until he works out something with Newburgh or talks to them I donít think its going to move forward.
MIKE: I have no objections to clean the ditch,† weíve just never written specs with a pipe like that, so I donít know how to tell a contractor to do it.† And Cheryl just showed me the minutes from last meeting and pointed out that one of the questions was, will Mr. Porter sign a waiver, the Drainage Boardís not going to be responsible for his private crossing.
BRUCE: I spoke with Mr. Porter and he has no problem, he is expecting the appropriate paper work from the County to sign.
MIKE: I donít have any objections to putting it in as long as Mr. Porter will sign the agreement that says weíre not responsible for the maintenance.
COMMISSIONER BARR: I make a motion that a Hold Harmless is signed that the County is not responsible for the culvert that the Drainage Board go ahead an install the culvert that Barringtonís going to furnish.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: I would still like to work out a deal with Newburgh or something before Ö.
MIKE: I felt like that too, but I had given, we had brought this up and discussed it favorably before we got the annexation and in all fairness to Bruce, I said that I would be willing to go along with what I said, That I would help put the pipe in. I do agree we need to talk with Newburgh, butÖÖÖ.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Iíll second the motion. Motion has been made and seconded to get bids to put in pip in which Bruce will pay for (pipe) by Barrington Corporation, all those in favor say aye, 2 ayes Opposed? None Motion carried 2-0.
BRUCE: I would request that you take off of table the discussion and modification of the Drainage and street plans for Wyngate Subdivision that was on todayís agenda.
MIKE: You didnít have any drainage changes on there.
BRUCE: No, just the elevation, we were just going to raise the intersection.
MIKE: It wasnít on the agenda because† there were no changes to the drainage plan.
COMMISSIONER BARR: Do you want us to take it off of the Commissionerís Agenda?
BRUCE: We want to leave it on for the street changes.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Anyone else? If not we need a motion to adjurn.
COMMISSIONER BARR: So moved.
COMMISSIONER PIKE:† Due to changing meeting times and various meetings the Drainage Board meeting today omitted some business and weíre going to go back and pick it up. This meeting will now come to order of the Warrick County Drainage Board at this time we will hear from the Paradise Fire Department on Drainage.
OHIO TWP FIRE DEPT.
MIKE LORELEIN:† Iím with Key Construction Company from Evansville and we are going to be constructing the new Ohio Twp Fire Dept. We have presented for review the Drainage Board the storm retention and surface drainage and proposed retention basin to the West of the property for your review and approval.
MIKE IRVIN:† We reviewed the plan, it meets with the current requirements and I would recommend it for approval.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Anyone in the audience have a comment on the Ohio Twp Fire Department on Epworth Road drainage plans?
RALPH BLAKE:† Iíve been a resident of Warrick County since 1959. At a discussion one time that was open to the public Mr. Allen whoís been a life long resident of that area up there gave the statement before that church was built there that that ground in that area, the whole section in there has been named the buffalo wallow its been carried down for years. There always has been a tremendous flooding problem in that area. Now we have the big church, now weíre putting a fire station over there and it is not our Countyís
Responsibility to supply fire protection or police protection, we can work in connection with the other county'í, but to locate that was an ill-advised thing to start out with, because they limited one of the directions they can go. All we got to go on is North, East , South and West and West is close to the County line there and the same as the EMS Station put down there in Newburgh, weíve still just got North, East, South and West. South is restricted by the Ohio river. We canít† continue to be making these mistakes with an already existing flooding problems is going to take awful close scrutiny before you can have anything thatís satisfactory there. Thereís been water get in the new church, they donít like to talk about it but these are some of the problems weíve got.† Weíve got to quit this band-aiding things just to get by. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Does anybody else have a comment?
MIKE: Ralph is right, that area has had flooding problems in the past, the station wonít have a flooding problem or it shouldnít by the ground elevations that its got and any water that they generate will be held on site and released over a period of time. I believe that this plat represents this same effort that we put and the developers are put out to retain their water on their sites. I donít see where that this development with their on-site retention will increase any run off from those areas anymore than today.
RALPH: I havenít been there as long as the Allen Family, but Iíve seen 2 feet of water over the intersection there at Epworth, so those things can happen and thereís† something going on at another used to be retention situation on the South side of the road and it looks to me like all we're doing is weíre getting into a thing thatís going to be an impossible situation.† One of our biggest problems in Warrick County is Pigeon Creek, now we've got going in Pigeon Creek redevelopment, theyíre doing this stuff bicycle paths, running paths and all kinds of stuff but how much have they really tried to increase drainage in that area. Somebodyís losing track of the whole situation. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Any other comments? Anything from the Board?
COMMISSIONER BARR:†† Mike, whatís your recommendation?
MIKE:† It meets all the recommendations of the Drainage Board, I would have to recommend it for approval.
COMMISSIONER BARR: I make a motion we approve.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Motion was made to approve the drainage plan, Iíll second. Any questions? All in favor say Aye† 2 ayes, those opposed? None Motion carried 2-0.† Now we will adjourn the Drainage Board Meeting for the second time. This concludes our business.