WARRICK COUNTY DRAINAGE BOARD
SEPTEMBER 13, 2000
Chairman Dave Rector opened meeting of the September 13, 2000 Drainage Board. Larry Barr made motion to approve minutes of August 30, 2000, 2nd by Jack Pike. Motion carried 2-0.† 1 abstention (Rector)
MEMBERS PRESENT:††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Dave Rector, Chairman; Jack Pike, Vice-Chairman;
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Larry Barr, Secretary and Mike Irvin, Surveyor.
ALSO PRESENT:†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Edwin Tweedy, Jeff Gardner, Dan Derrington, James Voltz,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Gilbert Leistner, James E.† Appel, Brad Mills, Jim Biggerstaff.
SPRING LAKE SUBDIVISION:
MIKE IRVIN: The majority of the lots are 2 Ĺ acres or above, he has two lakes on site, one is a stripper pit and the other is also a very small stripper pit. He has drainage easements on all the lot lines, initially I thought there might be a need for a drainage easement around the lakes, but everything drains to them now. One is a stripper pit on the east side, it has a high wall, Iím going to not require any drainage easement around the lakes. As I said itís not part of the drainage system, it wasnít required, so I didnít see any need to put up a road block.
COMMISSIONER BARR: What is your recommendation?
MIKE: That it be approved.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR:† This is on Millersburgh Road and Edwards. Any other comments, Bill (speaking to Bill Bivins)? Questions by the Board?†† Comments by the Public?
JAMES E. APPEL:† Iíve† got adjoining property there and on Edwards Road there is a little lake up there which was just aÖPeabody, I worked with them for a long time, cause before they dug that there was a pit where the road is going to be running now or where the lake is right now, there was a pit there that wound all the way around and into Millersburg Road there and all this property that I have thatís next to it drained into it and then when Peabody come through and stripped it all and put the overburden, well, to go back to the beginning, what Peabody did they drained the big pit that run all the way to Millersburg Road and then the overburden and trees and stumps, they just dumped that in there and then when they come with their first path with the shovel, they just dumped it into the pit to have a place to start. Now that theyíve got that built up if I want to put a road through my property and sell some lots just like theyíre wanting to do, all that water off of there is going to be going right down the pits to that ditch on Edwards Road at the far end of it. I was just curious what if I do cut a road in there and block that water, whereís that water go to? Thatís all Iím wanting to know.
MIKE: Well, typically youíd be required to put in a water crossing, a culvert underneath there and direct the water ( Mike showed Mr. Appel on Mr. Bivinís plans where his culvert was)
MR. APPEL:† Ok, getting back to the lake in the front with Peabody said all it was† was just a sludge holding place to catch and trap dirt and stuff washing over the hill. Now they cut a ditch on down that up close to Edwardís Road where they did have it rip-raped where it run right down through the property all the way to that other ditch. Thereís another lake back in there on the property.
MIKE: To the South?
MR. APPEL:† To the West . Now that theyíre putting a road through there all that rip-rap has been tore up and as far as I know I didnít see any tile underneath there to drain out of that lake yet.
MR. BIVINS: There is a structure that goes in there and it will be rip-rapped on the West side, on your side to help control the speed.
MR. APPEL: Then all of that, any overflow off all that hill is going to go across the property. All along Edwards Road where it would be tough to put any road in there if I wanted to build a house back there.
MR. BIVINS:† Thatís the drainageÖ..Weíre not changing any of the existing drainage pattern.
MR. APPEL: Yes, I know Peabody put them in and I couldnít get them to do anything about it for 15 years now.
MR. BIVINS: How large is your tract of land out there?
MR. APPEL: 17 acres
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: What† your asking is where your runoff would go from your property? Currently it goes.ÖÖ.
MR. APPEL: No, it all goes west.
MR. BIVINS:This is the lake we are talking about, but before it was Peabody Mine things drained the other way.
MIKE:† Oh, they drained this way, now theyíre going to the east.
MR. APPEL: What they did they reversed it from the east to the west, Peabody did.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: And how is that a problem with this?
MIKE: Yeah, Iím not sure Iím following.
MR. BIVINS: Weíre not changing any drainage patterns there now, that are there now.
MR. APPEL: No, Peabody put it like that.
COMMISSIONER PIKE:† What your concerned about it what water is going to come off on your property, right?
MR. APPEL:† All this is, all the way around, everything† where theyíre developing is.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR:† Your saying all of this is going to run on to you, is what your saying.
MR. APPEL: Right across it, right straight west now. Its going all the way west to a ditch down there.
COMMISSIONER BARR: Where is it going now?
MR. BIVINS: Thatís where its going now.
MIKE: This area here (on plan) comes into that lake which must discharge this way and drains out through here and hereís a hill, so this area is going to go this way.
MR. BIVINS: Then it overflows Mike.
MIKE: 2 Ĺ acre lots with a house and a garage on it, even if they put an outbuilding is not going to increase the runoff from those lots anymore than you see today.
MR. APPEL: What Iím saying, ok now letís get back on Millersburg Road now, where that lake is right now is drained (?) when they dug that and put that back, they put a ditch through there and all that water, any of that overflow there, when it rains thereís a ditch that runs all the way down thru there which all of this from the front drains to that ditch, all that comes right thru† the middle of the property that way from all the way from Millersburg Road. What Iím saying, mainly whatís happening is that 17 acres is just going to have a hell of a lot of water coming on it from every which way, even from the North, from the EastÖ..
MIKE: I wouldnít say itís going to have any more water than itís moving right now, today. But, if what your implying that Peabody changed the natural direction of the water, then absolutely, but understand thereís not much the Drainage Board can do about what Peabody did in reshaping the ground. But ití s my opinion after looking at the plat, that heís not going to increase the runoff from that property with 2 Ĺ acre lots. I donít know what else to say.
MR. APPEL: Whatís coming off there I know now it really comes roaring thru there in a hard rain, especially that front little lake up there by Edwardís Road. Thatís the major one that flat does pour it down thru there to the west right thru the middle of the property.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR:† So your objection is with what Peabody did.
MR. APPEL: More or less, yes.
MIKE: The water when it runs thru your property does it empty into another stripper pit further to the East.
MR. APPEL: Well, thereís a little pond there that is attached to that creek. I just wanted to bring it to everybodyís attention whatís taking place out there. Later on I may want to come before you guys, then you know whatís taken place.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Thank you, sir. Any other comments relative to the request? Desire of the Board?
COMMISSIONER BARR: I make a motion we approve
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Motion by Larry to approve is there a second?† Is there a second? Third and final time is there a second?
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Iíll second it.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR:† Discussion? All in favor?† 3 ayes† Opposed? None. Motion carries 3-0.
HERITAGE COMMERCIAL COURT-MAT MAN:
MIKE: They have asked for an extension for the next meeting. They have encountered a problem with trying to install for drainage.
COMMISSIONER BARR: Make a motion to continue till next meeting
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Motion by Larry, second by Dave. All in favor 3 ayes . Opposed? None Motion carries 3-0.
GILBERT LEISTNER COMPLAINT:
MR. LEISTNER: My name is Gilbert Leistner and I live on the Yankeetown Highway, our neighbor two houses North of me cut a road across a ditch there that drains through there and it backed up water all the way up the stream from the ditch until it was about 2 or 3 feet deep. I didnít know whether you could do anything about it. I called him last night he was out there working till about 11:oíclock with a backhole to open it up, but heís got another sewer heís going to put in there, itís about a 2 foot sewer, I donít believe itís going to be big enough though. I was wanting to know what size sewer he would need to put in there so itísÖÖÖ
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Is this an approved drain?
MIKE: No, itís a private drain, Itís here at the corner of Yankeetown Highway and New Hope and Roeder, the sub-station is here (on map) the drain is this one that theyíre talking about. Itís just north of their homes and goes back to the East and picks up right in here at this haul road that use to go through there and then drains down approximately the location theyíre talking about is right here (on Map). As I explained to them in the office, it wasnít a regulated drain and that the Drainage Board didnít have any authority and suggested they come to the Drainage Board..
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Heís cutting this in on his own property?
MR. LEISTNER: Yes, the ditch goes up and circles around and his lot goes straight back, he put a road in so he could get to his property on the other side of the ditch.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Have you talked with him about it?
MR. LEISTNER: Yes, I talked to him last night, he was out there working until about 11 oíclock with his backhole he opened it up and it was drained out. But heís got about a 2 foot sewer I think heís intending to put back in there. I donít believe thatís going to be a big enough diameter to carry the water through.
COMMISSIONER PIKE:† Does he have a culvert permit?†
STEVE SHERWOOD: Itís outside of road right-of-way.
MR. LEISTNER: I believe if he would know what size sewer he needs to put in there, he would cooperate and put that size in.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Who is the Gentleman?
MR. LEISTNER: Eddie Robbins
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: On private property I donít know how much we can getÖÖÖ.
MR. LEISTNER: Well, itís a drain that drains all the way up through there, itís been there for probably a hundred years maybe, itís a natural drain.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Is this just where that bridge is across the road?
MR. LEISTNER: Yes, that bridge that crosses the road they put about a 6x 6 box culvert across there, this is about 4 to 5 hundred feet upstream from it.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: I would say that we could probably approach him that weíre concerned about what heís doing, that it could cause us a problem out here.
MR. LEISTNER: I think he would cooperate if he just knew what size sewer he really should put in there.
MIKE: I volunteered to figure a pipe size for them, approximately what it should be.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Why donít you let us try to call him and tell him weíre concerned that what heís doing may affect out on our roadway and see if heíll cooperate with us.
STEVE: It is the same ditch upstream with that box culvert across Yankeetown Highway?
MIKE: Yes, as I understand it, it is the same ditch.
MR. LEISTNER: I think heís got about a 2 or 2 Ĺ foot sewer† heís intending to put back, so I donít think thatís going to be big enough.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Why donít you check back with Mike next week and see if he has had a chance to get with this guy and talk with him. Thank You.
MIKE: Mr. Johnson, if you will recall about a month or so ago, I had a telephone call from him and I interpreted it as he was wanting chemicals, heís already sprayed his ditch with the roundup we gave him 2 Ĺ years ago for the cattails and he bought a gallon of brush killer to put on his regulated drain and what he is asking for is a reimbursement.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: How much?
MIKE: $142.48 The round-up, if we would have bought it for him would have been basically the same price and the brush killer that he purchased does not burn grass or kill the grass, just like our requirement.
But itís roughly† $12 or $13 dollars cheaper than we would have bought.
COMMISSIONER BARR: Did you look at it?
MIKE: Yes, and itís been sprayed.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: So he just needs a reimbursement?
MIKE: Thatís what heís asking for, yes.
COMMISSIONER BARR: I make a motion to reimburse Mr. Johnson.
COMMISSIONER PIKE:† Second
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Motion by Larry, second by Jack† Discussion?† All in favor 3 ayes Opposed? None motion carries 3-0† Anything else, Mike?
MATTINGLY HOLD HARMLESS:
Mike asked Board if they wanted to discuss this Commissioner Barr said he had not seen it.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: This kidís making a simple situation awfully difficult on himself.
MIKE: Honestly, heís already got his approvals in the minutes and itís recorded as such and itís public record.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: I told him to go get Tomís and copy it. I guess he just wanted to charge hours.
MIKE:† Don Ashley talked to me about it and he said heís goneÖ. Theyíve had multiple conversations and heís satisfied with the way it is. He too, is wondering why we needed it.
COMMISSIONER BARR: I asked to see a copy of it way ahead of this meeting and so I havenít seen it.
MIKE: Do you want me to put it to rest or do you want me to bring it back?
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Weíve already made a motion to approve it† we just needed his document.
MIKE: Itís nothing different than anything else weíve ever done granting someone permission and itís
Recorded in the minutes, the minutes are public record and anyone can see it.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Theyíre the oneís that insisted doing that.
MIKE: Once you make the motion itís a legal, basically a legal document anyway.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: I ran into John and told him that the guy didnít know what he was doing and John was going to talk to him. Anything else before the Board
JIM BIGGERSTAFF: This is in regards to Sunrise Estates Subdivision, which is Jeff Gardner is here. The discussion came up about this dam out here and Jack and I and† we all went out there and looked at this thing, so what we agreed to do was go back to the SCS Office. I was the one who made the contact with Donnie Phillips and after Donnie went out there and did it, he said weíre not qualified to do it at the SCS Office. I think the whole problem here has to do with one line. Mike, you werenít there, Scott was there and we have yet to understand why this one paragraph was put in here and Iíd like to read it, it says our inspection indicates there may have been a problem with the dam in the past and may possible leakage from the dam. They want this as a covenant on the plat and that never was discussed and weíve all checked this thing
MIKE: It actually was discussed and it was required by the Drainage Board and if I recall correctly it came up because the land owners during the hearings came in and told us that it was a leaking dam.
MR. BIGGERSTAFF: Jeff is here and he has been familiar with this for close to twenty some odd years and we canít find anybody who says their qualified to actually do this inspection unless we go to Indianapolis.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Our concern is the property ownerís are going to be responsible for it.
MR. BIGGERSTAFF: Right and any covenants or restrictions, thatís not a problem, but weíre creating a problem here that doesnít exist and thatís what we have an objection to because this is a recorded document.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: What if we say all that except for that one sentence. What we want to do is just protect the County.
MR. BIGGERSTAFF: In other words put the property owner on notice that itís their responsibility. We donít have a problem with any of that, that itís a covenant it goes with the plat and it puts all the property owners on notice that theyíre responsible not Warrick County.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Thatís what we do on coal mine property thatís been reclaimed.
MR. BIGGERSTAFF: Itís ambiguous of that language there thatís creating a title problem and we want to make sure that the Countyís protected and that the owners are on notice. We have no idea who came up with that statement, Mike do you know?
MIKE: If I recall, like I said, I believe it came from the audience with complaints and we were asked to go look at it.
MR. BIGGERSTAFF: I understand, but when I talked to Scott, he didnít know where that language came from, we did not make up the language.
MIKE: Well, apparently someone did because it just didnít write itself.
MR. BIGGERSTAFF: Itís somebody in your office, thatís what my point is, we did not come up with that language.
MIKE: If I recall correctly, and Iíve only read the minutes, but you agreed to put it on there so itís not like it was a secret or† surprise or something, right?
MR. BIGGERSTAFF:† Yes, We agreed to hold the County harmless and pass it on to landowners, but what we object to is that particular statement.
MIKE:† Quit frankly, you would know more about it than I would who did it and how it came up. But I do recall† that it was the concern of the land owners that thought the lake was leaking and it was brought up at the meeting and an inspection was made and found that it was in fact leaking.
MR. BIGGERSTAFF: But there was no mention of it ever being a covenant or a part of the plat or anything but we donít object to that. What we object to is that particular line that is underlined.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Alright, Iím going to suggest this. That we say these two paragraphs with the exception of that sentence and add a sentence that the property owners are responsible for the maintenance of the dam.
MR. BIGGERSTAFF: Ok, thatís fine
COMMISSIONER RECTOR:† Thatís what weíre trying to get to. Iíll make that in the form of a motion.
COMMISSIONER BARR: Iíll second it for discussion, youíre saying take that out but add the sentence that the property owners are responsible for the maintenance of the dam. Therefore the County wonít be.
Thatís the only concern I had.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Any other discussion?† All in favor† 2 ayes Opposed none Commissioner Pike abstained. Motion carried 2-0 1 abstention.†† Any other business before the Board?
Mike stated there was a gentleman in the audience who wanted to discuss this ditch.
ED TWEEDY:† My name is Ed Tweedy and Iím here concerning the Fisher-Hugel Ditch. I would like to ask you to take into consideration delaying the start of cleaning that ditch out. I heard Monday that you were planning on starting the job pretty soon.
COMMISSIONER BARR:† Then you know more about it than I do.
MR. TWEEDY: All I know is what Karan Barnhill told me.
COMMISSIONER BARR: Karan Barnhill knows a lot more about it than I do then.
MR. TWEEDY: I was out in the mezzanine and she came up to me and said we were just talking about you, she said we canít find the location of that ditch or anything.
COMMISSIONER BARR: Steve, do you want to comment on that, it would have come out of your office.
STEVE: Ed came in our office, but I didnít catch much of the conversation that happened, but Justin came in from Mikeís Office wanting to know who was a property owner out there and we cited everyone we thought we knew and thatís about as much as I know of it.
MR. TWEEDY: Well, when I first encountered Karan was out in the mezzanine and so they didnít know where it was, she couldnít figure it out, and I told her if she ha a map I can show you where it is. I showed her thatís why I went into your office, Steve. But, first off the whole area is underwater right now. Itís nothing but a swamp and a loblolly, the lower end of it, so I would ask to think about delaying the start.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR:† I thought this was supposed to be finished in 120 days and its not started yet. Our question was is why it hasnít started?
Mr. Tweedy again described very descriptively how the ditch looks. He thinks that this is the wrong time of the year to start.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Mike, do you have an update on this?
MIKE: I have been calling Mr. Aignerís Office every week for the past month and a half two months. We have met him down there on many occasions to get his crew started and then it rains on us and as Mr. Tweedy has indicated once it starts raining half of that ditch project is either too wet to even walk on it or its under water. I will grant you this, there were two or so couple week periods where it didnít rain in the beginning of the year that he could have moved on. But most of the contractors were discussing July and August work because that was typically our driest time, weíve had over 20 inches of rain in July and August. We havenít had a dry time, weíve had rain every week. I met with him as last as just this past Friday, we walked down there, we looked at the ditch to get started Monday morning on it and then of course it started raining all weekend again. Now as Mr. Tweedy says today its under water. I suggested during our Friday meeting that he get started on the upper end and thatís where we left it.
COMMISSIONER BARR: Did he agree?
MIKE: He agreed to get a crew in there and get started as soon as he could get started and he was going to talk to Mr. Tweedy about getting access off of Warrington Road.
MR. TWEEDY: Also when it rains in Gibson County weíll have water in that field 4 and 5 feet deep. Itís been over Inderrieden Road† a few times.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Anything else, Ed?
MR. TWEEDY: Yes, they need to burn that brush just as soon as they get it stacked up, if the water comes up that brush will just scatted everywhere. Iíd like to ask you not to bury any logs or any stumps.
MIKE: Iíve talked to Ed about this, I do agree that if thereís too much debris, it could float back up.
MR. TWEEDY: I would like to suggest that you delay this until the 1st of July 2001. I donít think your going to have suitable weather this year. But I would give him permission to park on the high ground.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Anything else before the Board?
COMMISSIONER BARR: I make a motion we recess.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Motion by Larry, second by Dave, all in favor 3 ayes, opposed? None motion carries 3-0.