WARRICK COUNTY DRAINAGE BOARD
OCTOBER 11, 2000
††††††††††††††† MEMBERS PRESENT:††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Dave Rector, Chairman; Jack Pike, Vice-Chairman;
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Don Ashley, Attorney for Board and Mike Irvin,
††††††††††††††† ALSO PRESENT:†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Edwin Tweedy and Don Wade.
Chairman Rector opened meeting. The first order of business was the approval of the minutes from the meetings of September 13, 2000 and September 27, 2000. The minutes were read prior to this meeting.
Commissioner Pike made motion to approve minutes of both previous meetings, 2nd by Commissioner Rector. Motion carried. 2-0.
MIKE IRVIN:† We have 2 quotes on Sprengle Ditch. The first one is from Ray Stradtner, Inc. Do you want to hear the specs first?
Commissioners answered yes.† .
MIKE: Remove accumulated debris and silt from the Sprengle Ditch channel at the outlet of an existing storm sewer with an attached flood gate, located as follows; between Lotís 4 & 5 in Rabbit Run Subdivision, commonly known as 4077 & 4055 Trinity Drive in Newburgh, In.
Debris and silt shall be removed from the channel in such a manner as to free up the existing storm sewer floodgate, Willows and other obstructions in the immediate area of the storm sewer outlet shall also be removed from the channel and both banks at or near the storm sewer outlet so as to minimize future obstruction hazards to the outlet.
All debris removed from the ditch shall be loaded into a truck and hauled away from the site. Work will be performed from the east bank of the drain, in the rear yard area between Lots 4 and 5 as stated above. Work shall be performed by excavating equipment and or hand tool methods, as required to clear all obstructions from the specified area. The Contractor will be responsible for the hauling of and proper disposal of the debris removed from the drain. Quotes must be received by the Warrick County Surveyorís Office by 1:30 P. M. on September 24th. There is a map included.
Mr. Stradtnerís quote is to remove the accumulated debris and silt from the ditch channel from the said lots .basically he just repeats what the specs say. His quote is for $2,850.00. There isnít a per foot on this one cause its just a specified job not a ditch cleaning perí seí.
The second quote is from Warrick Excavating. My quote bid on Sprengle Ditch is $800.00.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: $800.00? $2000.00 difference?
MIKE: I have no explanation, our quotes have been coming in like that. They are from one extreme to the other. They all had the same data.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Both had the same discussions and everything else?
MIKE: This is not a bid, we did not hold a bid hearing on it, we give out the specifications and answer any questions that come in. If you would like an explanation, I have no clue if this is right or not.† Warrick Excavating has told me that he hasnít got any work right now, so maybe thatís the explanation for the difference.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: I make a motion we accept the $800.00 bid from Warrick Excavating, but I want to make sure that the gentleman really understands what heís doing because he his going to be held responsible for it.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Do you want to confirm that itís per the specs?
MIKE: Do you want me to call them prior to telling him that he was awarded it and make sure he understands the specs?
COMMISSIONERS: Both answered yes.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Motion by Jack, seconded by Dave. All in favor 2 ayes . None opposed.
Motion carries 2-0.
MIKE: Did you guys take care of that thing from Mr. Shivelyís Office?
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: No, Can it be continued today unless Jack or I have changed our mind and I doubt that either of us have.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Jack has not changed his mind on the 25 foot, no.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: So I imagine it will be continued again.† I make a motion to continue Mattingly property request for agreement on Right-of-Way. Motion to table.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: When there are only two Board members at meeting and they disagree, it automatically comes back to the next meeting according to the statutes.
MIKE: Mr. Porter has signed and returned the agreements on the placement of that drive-way pipe, we have encountered an oddity that we didnít anticipate. Mr. Porter informs me that there are gas and water lines on top of his private entrance into his property. Those lines will have to be cut and removed and either relocated or just cut and removed.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Your kidding?
COMMISSIONER PIKE: This is the one on Epworth?
MIKE: Ellerbusch Road. Since the Drainage Board did notÖÖ..
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: So they come in off the road right at the drive?
MIKE: Thatís what he informed me of.
STEVE: His pipe is so small heís probably got 3 feet of cover over it.
MIKE: His words were, I came home one day and my drive-way was cut and there were water lines and a gas line laying in those cuts. And I said to him, Mr. Porter, you didnít get permission to put in a pipe, much less cross with gas lines and water lines. I said, I donít think the Drainage Board can move your stuff for you, he pointed out to me very clearly he would not be involved in this he would not do any monetary things† whatsoever, So I said, well your going to have to wait on this because I need some direction. I canít replace pipes that were illegally placed.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: We can always just rip them out and leave the ditch.
MIKE: Thatís why I gave him two options, we can cut them or we can cut them and have them removed by somebody else. But, weíre ready other than that. I just donít know what to do with his private gas line and water.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Are the pipes in?
MIKE: His old pipe is still in.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: No, I mean the new one is in?
MIKE: Oh, I assume so. We talked to Mr. Miller 2 weeks ago, maybe 3. Weíre ready except for that.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: The pipes in illegally.
MIKE: There are no permissions to put in a drive-way pipe nor can I find any permissions to put in water lines or gas lines.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: I donít see how we can agree to do that at our expense.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: This is a legal drain and they put a water line and a gas line in a legal drain?
MIKE: Well, before it goes too far, that is a standard thing if you live on one you have to cross it. We would never say no that you canít have utilities because you have to cross our ditch.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Generally on those things there is a requirement that you go so deep. Isnít there a requirement that you go so deep in a legal drain so we donítÖÖ
MIKE: If they brought them in to me, we would require you to be a minimum of† 2 feet below the surface for a major line, for a line like this we would have probably said get it below the ditch a foot we would be happy, butÖÖÖ
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Don, any suggestions?
DON ASHLEY: He should be notified in writing that unless the situation is taken care of the lines will be cut.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Is that something that you think you ought to do?
DON: Iíll do it, I need the information .
MIKE: Do we continue with the project bid? I donít mean to push, but Iím getting behind on this, because I didnít bring it up the last time.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: I donít think we can do anything on the project until we notify the owners.
MIKE: We canít do the job but we can bid it, so that weíre ready.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR:† The people being affected by that not draining adequately are really complaining.
MIKE: Iíve talked to Bruce several times, Iím well aware that weíre in a hurry to get it done and every time Iíve talked to Mr. Porter something else comes up that I didnít know before. So I assured him that he would not be charged for work that we had discussed up till then, thatís when he brought it up about the water and gas lines and said well, whoís going to move that? Not me, its not my lines. So Iíll get the bid ready and weíll bid it and if its not resolved we can table it. And per the conversation Iím pretty sure he wonít.
FISHER HUGEL DITCH:
EDWIN TWEEDY: The first question I would like to ask is for you to read the specs. Maybe we can get this ironed out, I was over talking to the operator this morning. I talked to Jerry† Aigner about 6:15 this morning. They are first on one side of the ditch and on the other side of the ditch. They said they didnít have to take any trees off of the North side, said they† were just going to work the South side. But the understanding that I had they were supposed to take back clear right-of-way back 70 foot either from the center of the ditch or the top of bank.
MIKE: No, as I told you on the phone. Itís 75 foot from the top of the bank and there was no provision in the specs to clear the entire 75 feet. They typically clear a 30 to 35 foot working area.
MR. TWEEDY: Yes, but on each side.
MIKE: On each side is that they were supposed to be doing.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR:† What did it say about who got the trees? Any trees that are coming out?
MIKE: It doesnít ever say. Trees belong to the County once the projects let and their there to be disposed of.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Don Wade called and complained that they were taking his trees and he thought that they ought to be his.
MIKE: And they are, right up until the project is let. I mean, you want to discuss it now or do you want to wait, we donít want to get everything mixed together.
MR. TWEEDY: There are some trees, I moved my fence over 70 feet the first time, really I moved it 90 feet. Heís going to need all of it. The operator about 10:00 A.M. told me that they werenít taking any trees on the North side, just on the South side. I think he had been misinformed.
MIKE: I think so too, and I held this discussion this morning with my Deputy and it will be straightened out.
Mr. Tweedy stated that it was still a little wet out there.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Hadnít we decided to wait till next year on this since they hadnít started it yet?
MIKE: The last instructions I got from the Board was from Larry to continue on if we can get him in there and get him working and thatís what I did after the meeting, I called Jerry and told him he would get started or he would lose the job, period.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Aigner came to the meeting late after the last discussion we had about a month ago I guess, and he said he was going to do it in June or July of next year. So I was surprised when Ed called the other day that they started in there. He came to the Commissioners Meeting after the Drainage Board meeting.
MIKE: Well, as I reported a month ago, I had been calling him for 3 weeks harassing him and asking him why he has not fulfilled his obligations. So if he thinks he was going to start it in June or July of next year he was obviously mistaken, because I had been very clear on the phone, these jobs will be done before December so I can say they are all right.
MR. TWEEDY: He called Sunday night and got ahold of† my son and left a message that he would be there at 7:00 Monday morning.† His work is, well, I canít say heís not doing good work, but tell my if Iím wrong. Doesnít each side have to take their own share of the dirt?
MIKE: thatís what you asked for, the dirt to be split. Thatís understandable.
MR. TWEEDY: I donít know how far back itís going to be cleaned, but it should be cleaned back far enough to get the limbs off the trees and the ditch is full of them now, I think it should be cleaned back at least 35 feet. Iím cooperating with him. Heís got at least 140 feet to work in. Weíve taken some of the trees for firewood. Is there anything I need to know? I was told the last time I was up here that it wouldnít start until next summer.
COMMISSIONER PIKE: Thatís what we were originally told and Jerry run into me sometime after that† and he said Iím not going to start that until June of next year. So I was surprised he started it
(There was some discussion about Aigner not going to start this job until next June, Mike reported that he had not heard that from Mr. Aigner in all the discussions they had.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: It sounds like your following it pretty close, Mike.
MIKE: Weíve been trying to, I had a crew down there just yesterday making an inspection and I was going to go back today but I ran† out of time. Iíll probably be down there tomorrow morning. A safe bet would be about 9 or 9:30 A.M.
Mr. Tweedy asked Mike to give him a call before he came down.
DON ASHLEY:†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† $266.66
DAVE RECTOR:†††††††††††††††††† $100.00
LARRY BARR:†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† $ 50.00
JACK PIKE:††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† $100.00
MIKE IRVIN(travel)†††††††††††††††††††††††††††† $ 47.41
EVSVILLE BLUPRT:††††††††††††††††††††††††††† $212.21
Commissioner Rector made motion to pay claims, seconded by Commissioner Pike. All in favor 2 ayes.
Motion carried. 2-0. Any other business before the Board.
MIKE: Did you want to discuss Don Wade? Heís been in my office most of the day, in and out. In talking to my staff there was a change in stories between my office and your office or maybe a misunderstanding
FISHER HUGEL CONT:
Somewhere. Mr. Wade comes in and was a little upset because he claims he never got notified, in part thatís true. When we went to pull names we found his nephew, Jeff Wade. Basically there was no name
On the property adjoining Jeff† Wadeís.† (Mike shows them on plat map where land is) It is divided by Ohio and Campbell Townships. There was a piece of property, this is Ohio, This is Campbell, this piece of property had no name on it. We went over to Campbell outside our working area and couldnít find a name on this property. So I made the decision to send it to Jeff Wade. I know the Wadeís owned a lot of that ground down there, so the safe bet was to send it to Jeff Wade. Don† Wade comes in yesterday and says he didnít get notified. I pointed out that the Auditorís plat doesnít have his name in it. He said thatís right. I said, so you knew this and he said yes. And I said, you need to fix this. You need to go over there and get it straightened out. I thought thatís where he was going, evidently he went to your office instead. He was complaining about the trees that he wanted them out. I asked him if there was anything marketable. He told me no. So I asked him what the issue was with the trees. He stated that he should have a choice. So I gave him the choice, I apologized again and reminded him that he knew why he didnít get notified. I stated that his end was the low end that he would have time to get something from a logger and tell us what you want to do. If youíve got logs in there that you want out, Iíll make provisions to get them out. I never heard back until approximately 11:30 or so, he called and said that he would like to know who the loggers are in Warrick County, I told him I didnít know. Mr. Wade stated your Deputy gave me the name of a logger, and I told him that if he did, he most likely named someone he knew as we donít work with them. I also told him that the phone book has loggers in it. Mr. Wade came in and Mike told him he could finish the story, Mike also asked him if he had found a logger.
MR.WADE: I just figured I would use the guys that are buying it from Mr. Aigner, whatever they say. I mean its all right with me. I havenít talked to them yet.
MIKE: When you were in my office you were telling me that the trees were about 12 inches in diameter, were they interested in those.
MR. WADE: No, I donít think so.
MIKE: Weíre not on your ground yet, are we?
MR. WADE: Yes
MIKE: Were they there this morning?
MR. WADE: The track hole (?) was there this morning, but itís not now. I went down there hoping to catch the loggers to get them to look at the rest of them.
MIKE: This is where we left it, this is the last thing I knew of, you looking for a logger.
MR. WADE: Iíve talked to Scott, Iím not trying to be difficult about this, had we been notified we would have gotten the money out of the logs and we would have been happy and you guys could have done your work.
MIKE: I told you yesterday that we would make provisions if you would find somebody to do something.
MR. WADE: yes, and Iím happy with that.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR:† So your ok now?
MR. WADE: Well, my brother, where heís in on it with me itís 143 acres weíre partners on and he said whatever we can work out.
MIKE: Did you make it to the Auditorís Office and make sure your name is on that parcel in that book.
MR. WADE: No
MIKE: Itís really nothing to me, but it would save you a lot of trouble.
MR. WADE: Itís a really gray area when you turn that page, I guess because the townships change, is that why?
MIKE: The Ohio and Campbell line follow an old ditch bed and it really is confusing in that spot. But you do need to make sure that the auditor is aware of this. Anybody who does work like I do, any easements or anything they are going to go to that book.
MR. WADE: I thought they could determine who owned it by the taxes.
MIKE: Well they do, but like I said if you get into those areas where ditches go one way and property lines to the other and then townships lines are in there somewhere, sometimes they just leave it open. You have a deed that gives you so much ground and you are taxed for that amount of ground, but thatís not saying it will tell you where all that is.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: As I said before, Mike it looks like your following this pretty close.
MR. WADE: If what Scott and I talked about, if everything goes like we talked then Iím fine.
FISHER HUGEL CONT:
Mike: You call me when you find them and Iíll make provisions to get those logs in a safe location so you can retrieve them if you want them.
MR. WADE: The whole family cuts firewood, thereís tons of ash piled up, it wouldnít be like that if we had known. There was a lot of 12 inch trees in those piles that I donít think should have had to come out.
MIKE: The policy is that we take out all the trees in the Right-of-Way when we work and we leave some trees behind for seed and shade and so that theÖÖ
MR. WADE: Thatís what Iím saying if the 12 inch trees would have been left. The other side of the ditch has catalpa trees that are 3 times bigger around than me and theyíre still standing and theyíre rotten and theyíre going to fall into the ditch.
MIKE: They wonít be for long.
MR WADE: Itís been a waste of time if he donít finish the job.
MIKE: Typically, what I tell my contractors when they go in is leave good healthy trees, the larger the better and clean out around them. So thatís probably the specifications.
MR. WADE: I think that theyíre intentions are, that they are done on the other side of the ditch.
MIKE: Well, they havenít been inspected yet.
MR. WADE: I asked him and he said all they were going to do now was trim it out and I asked about the other side.
MIKE: There does seem to be a confusion here, they were told in the beginning that they had to work on both banks. Iíll go straighten it out, Iíve done had this conversation this morning with the crew and told them we would have to get this misunderstanding fixed.
MR. WADE: This contract deal here, that they agreed to and stuff. They are going to get rid of all the debris. They have to burn or bury it, Right?
MIKE: Or haul it away, something, they dispose of it. Burning or burying is what we normally do, but if someone wants it† they can haul it out. It is the contractorís responsibility to get rid of it, so its not left on site.
MR. WADE: I told Mr. Aigner I wouldnít stop him because he was in there doing what he was supposed to do, but he knew there was marketable timber because he had the loggers in there sawing it.
MIKE: The only thing I can speak to specifically is he was talking to Ed Tweedy about the same thing months ago and I know that part and they agreed to haul it away and Ed wanted firewood. But of course your name didnít come up.
MR. WADE: I wished I would have know it and we wouldnít have had this problem.
COMMISSIONER RECTOR: Any other discussion. Any other items? We need motion to recess
COMMISSIONER PIKE: So moved† Commissioner Rector 2nd the motion . Motion carries 2-0.