WARRICK COUNTY DRAINAGE BOARD
JANUARY 10, 2001
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Ashley, Attorney for Drainage Board and
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Karan Hargrave-Barnhill, Surveyor.
ALSO PRESENT:†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Sharon Oxley, Cheryl Heaton, Guy Kissel,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Ken Ubehlor, Ralph W. Blake, John M.
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Burnley, Jennifer Goff, Lana Shook,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Martha Sue Coy, Mark Krantz, Scott Holder
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Jon Newman, Bruce Miller, Bill Bivins,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Sherri Phillips, Steve Sherwood,† Jim
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Morley, Jr. and Tom Oakley.
ELECTION OF OFFICERS:
Jack Pike made motion to elect Don Williams as President of Drainage Board, 2nd by Carl Conner. Motion passed 3-0.
Jack Pike made motion to elect Carl Conner a Vice-President, 2nd by Don Williams, Motion carried 2-0. Carl Conner abstained.
Don Williams made motion to elect Jack Pike Secretary, 2nd by Carl Conner, motion carried 3-0.
Jack Pike nominated Don Ashley as Drainage Board Attorney, 2nd by Carl Conner,† President asked for any other nominations? Motion carried 3-0.
Jack Pike nominated Cheryl Embry for Recording Secretary, 2nd by Carl Conner, motion carried 3-0.
Jack Pike made motion to approve minutes of December 27, 2000, 2nd by President Williams, motion carried 2-0. Carl Conner abstained.
This resolution is to designate the meetings of 2001. President Williams read the resolution, the meetings are set for the 2nd and 4th Wednesdays of each month at 3:00 P.M. with the exception of holidays. In the case of a Holiday the meeting will be advertised with the date and time of the meeting. Commissioner Pike made motion to approve Resolution 2001-1, 2nd by Commissioner Conner. Motion carried 3-0.
CENTER RIDGE SUBDIVISION: Karan† Hargrave-Barnhill, Surveyor, reported
that this proposed sub is located off of McCool Road and Center Road. The lots are all over 2 Ĺ acres. Drainage plans are not required for lots this large. Karan recommended approval of the request that no Drainage Plans be required.
Bill Bivins, Engineer for the project stated that when you go from a cultivated field to a residential property, you reduce the run-off.
President Williams asked the public for comments.
Lana Shook, 5700 McCool Road stated she owned a farm directly to the West of the development and she asked how they were going to handle the drainage, since it comes directly to her.
Mr. Bivins said that the natural flow would still go that way, but with this development they will actually slow the water down since it will be going thru grassy yards instead of cultivated land. There will be no change in the direction of the run-off.
Commissioner Pike made a motion to approve the request that no drainage plans be required for Center Ridge Subdivision. Commissioner Conner 2nd the motion. Motion carried 3-0.
GOURLEY PLACE PART 6:
Karan stated that this development is bounded by Coal Mine Road, Sherra Lane and Telephone Road. It is a development of 7 lots, 4† that are fronting on Sherra Lane, 3† that are fronting on Telephone Road. The natural flow of storm water currently runs to a ditch that runs across lot 1. The ditch is being relocated to the back of the lots and a retention basin created to hold the water there. This will slow it down and discharge with a 6-inch PVC pipe into the roadside ditch and then it will go into an existing crossover pipe on Coal Mine Road. Karan said that the drainage plans are in order.
Bill Bivins stated that this property is zoned C-3 and the developer is going to rezone it to residential. The additional storm water will be caught and released at an appropriate rate.
Commissioner Pike made a motion to approve drainage plan of Gourley Place Part 6, Commissioner Conner 2nd, Motion carried 3-0.
Sharon Oakley resides at 7655 Sherra Lane directly across the street from the proposed development. She stated that they are thrilled that the proposed is going to be zoned residential, but they have a water-drainage problem there. She lives beside the ditch and it is about 4 feet deep, the water runs around the culvert and goes underneath the street causing a wash out. She further stated that the ditch on the other side of the street is only about 2 feet deep and it gets shallow as it nears the end. The residents would like to know what to do about the flooding problem. She wants to know if what Mr. Bivins is going to build (retention basin) will help their problem.
Mr. Bivins stated that what they are building wonít help their problem, but it shouldnít increase it any since they are building the retention area. He further explained that the ditch they are referring to is in is a County Right-of-Way. He further stated that the water that they are getting they would continue to get because that drainage flow is not being redirected.
Mrs. Oakley stated that when she called the County they said it belonged to Gourleys Subdivision, so they donít know where to turn.
Steve Sherwood stated that what she is referring to is a 36 inch reinforced pipe that crosses Sherra Lane at the corner of the subdivision. That drainage problem and the ditch needs to be cleaned along the entire subdivision, He explained that the problem is when it gets to the pipe and the pipe canít handle the water and it broaches the roadway. Steve Sherwood further explained that a possible upgrade of that pipe across Sherra Lane may be necessary, however this we will discuss at the next meeting to determine who will be responsible for this upgrade.
Cheryl Heaton 7508 Sherra Lane stated that they receive all the trash that is thrown into the ditch. She stated that they get the overflow from Castle Hills and from Timberlake, that the ditch cannot handle all the storm water. If Gourleyís lake overflows they also get that water.
Steve Sherwood said that part of this problem will be eased because with the development of those lots they wonít get the leaves and branches from that little forest area causing blockage of† the first culvert. He further stated that the water that comes down that ditch in a hard rain is very large.
Tom Oakley addressed the Board and said that a few years ago they cleaned that ditch and deepened it and for awhile the water ran thru and kept itself cleaned out.
Steve Sherwood stated that most of the problem is debris from leaves blocking up the first culvert and then the water has to go along the roadside ditch and cross the next culvert and the County has tried to talk to the property owner there who has forbade digging anymore dirt away from his property. He further stated they will probably have to buy more road Right-of-Way to create a larger ditch so the water will keep flowing.
President Williams asked the Board if they wanted to change the motion.
Commissioner Pike stated that he doesnít feel that it will change the drainage for this subdivision. He further stated that the County does have problems with people throwing trash into the ditch.
President Williams advised Steve that maybe it should be put on the agenda to visit that site next Wednesday on the 19th.
Commissioner Pike stated that the subdivision that Mr. Bivins is presenting would not solve the drainage problem upstream but it should slow the water down. He said he hoped this addressed some of the publics concerns, but when we get a hard rain there is not a lot that will help the low areas. He stated that the County tries to keep the ditches cleaned out, but with all the subdivisions and private ditches in the County itís hard to do.
Steve Sherwood said that the basin would not hold in the County so much that it will back up to the street, he explained that there also has to be an emergency overflow in his retention to prevent that from happening.
Commissioner Pike also explained of the 50-year retention as opposed to the 25-year that we used to require.
Steve Sherwood stated for the record that we can control the structures in the County road Right-of-Way such as Sherra, Coal Mine and Telephone, but he explained that he doesnít think itís a legal drain from that point on to the Tanglewood ditch .† He also stated that cleaning the farm fields is another matter, however the County can clean the roadside ditches and the structures that weíve talked about during this session. Developments are supposed to keep their ditches clean.
It was explained to the public that these matters could be addressed at the County Commissioners Meeting which follows the Drainage Board Meeting.
ALLEN DITCH:† PORTER DRIVE-WAY PIPE
Karan Barnhill explained that Bruce Miller came into the Surveyorís Office and brought to her attention that there was discussion at the Countyí Drainage Board meeting last year, that a drive-way culvert which lies in the Countyís legal drain was to be replaced, the property belongs to John Porter on Ellerbusch Road. The pipe lies in the Allen Ditch legal drain which also runs adjacent to Ellerbusch Road. She further explained the Drainage Board had made a decision that the pipe could be replaced and upsized. The Drainage Board and Steve Sherwood suggested a pipe size and Bruce Miller was going to buy the pipe with the Drainage Board working with the Highway Department to have the structure installed. Bruce came in and wanted to know what the status was,† So I pulled the file and found out that there is a water line that belongs to Chandler, who seems to think that its not in the way but on the other side of the road. She also stated that there appears to be a SIGECO line in the way but she has been unable to get a response from them to date. She explained that she placed this on the agenda to bring everyone up to date, discuss it and see what kind of time table we are on to get this work scheduled.
Bruce Miller, Barrington Development Group, the stated that we had all agreed last year† that Barrington would buy the pipe and the county would install it. I think the only reason that it didnít happen last year was because of the natural gas line. He further stated it is my understanding that in talking to Mr. Porter that SIGECO had indicated that it wouldnít be a problem to move the pipe just to let them know and they would send a crew out to get it relocated. He stated that he just wanted to get this administration to verify this so that he could order the pipe and have it on site.
Steve Sherwood stated that everything that Bruce and Karan said is true and he feels that this can be accomplished in one day.
Karan stated that Indiana American Water does not think their line is in the way at all. Chandler thinks that their line is on the other side.
It was determined that the main thing was getting all the utilities together and making sure they are all out of the way.
†It was also stated that Mr. Porter is in agreement with everything as long as it is no cost to him. Steve and Karan are to work out the details and get with the highway department to get this job finished.
CERTIFICATION OF COURT DRAINS AND DITCHES:
Karan stated that she would like this item to be continued due to some discrepancies that the staff has found in order to verify the lineal footage information.
Commissioner Pike made motion to table until next meeting. Commissioner Conner 2nd Motion carried 3-0.
Karan stated that this is a development off of State Road 61, consisting of 4 lots. She explained that there are stripper pits along the front.
She also explained that the lots in this development are all 2 Ĺ acres and does not require any drainage plans. She also stated that she received a call from Mark Krantz and a few other people who would like to comment and ask some questions.
Karan questioned that not all lots had access to SR 61, asking if there were plans to fill any pits.
Mr. Bivins stated that there would be two common drives and they will be permitted by the State for the entrance and that they will have to fill in two drives to get access.
Mike Burnley stated he was one of the owners north and west of this proposed property. He explained that his concern is that they donít receive any additional water on their property.
Mr. Bivins said there are only going to be 4 residences on the property, they will not change the drainage patterns. He further stated that by putting vegetation in the yards it will slow the water down.
Mark Krantz stated that he owns the property on the southwest corner and his concern is if anything is going to change radically. He said that unlike most people he welcomes the water on his property. He also stated he uses the water for irrigation purposes and he has the ditch on his property modified so that it fills a lake that he controls the water levels. He stated that he was satisfied that Mr. Bivins was not going to change the drainage.
Jennifer Goff stated that her property is adjacent to the proposed development and her question was what pits they intend to fill in?
†Mr. Bivins showed her on the map the portions of the pits that were going to be filled in
She stated her other concern was the entrances because of truck traffic
†Mr. Bivins stated that State had not yet confirmed the entrances.
Jon Newman stated that he lives at the end of N. 2nd Street and he was concerned about the dead end street which ends on a huge hill and is also at a SIGECO easement. He said he had a lot of drainage from the bank.
Mr. Bivins stated that the property line is on top of the bank and the reason they couldnít get access from Boonville was because they would have had to get on other peopleís property to get a Right-of-Way. It was explained to Mr. Newman that his property is in the City and we have no jurisdiction in the City.
Commissioner Conner made a motion to approve the request for Drainage Plans to be required, 2nd by Commissioner Pike. Motion carried 3-0.
Karan stated that there are two situations that have come to her attention that she needs guidance from the Board. Charlestown Square which Howard Ditch runs across, also property that Kenny Ubelhor owns are in the same situation. She stated that in Kennyís case he wants to run a sewer line across Sprengel Ditch. She stated they both have lines, which are going to be crossing legal drains. Karan further explained that in the past Mike Irvin required that they enter into a Hold Harmless agreement signed by the utilities to guarantee that if anything happened to the lines or any problems with the ditch that Warrick County would not assume the cost and it would not be the Countyís responsibility to make sure the lines didnít impede upon our projects or anything that we did in the ditch. She further stated that apparently the utility companies are not willing to sign the Hold Harmless any longer. She stated that Mr. Morley brought in a copy of the Indiana† Statute that explains† that if work performed in a legal drain causes any problem with any project that the County do the utility company would have to assume the cost to move the lines. She stated so they basically want is to go ahead and place their lines crossing the ditch without entering into a Hold Harmless agreement. She stated that she has called Don Ashley and he has researched it and needs to advise the Board further.
Don Ashley, Attorney for Drainage Board asked if they were constructing utility lines in the ditch now? It was answered that they were planning to cross the ditches. He asked if those plans had been submitted to the Drainage Board and been approved?
Jim Morley, Jr. stated that on both projects the crossings were approved by the previous Drainage Board in the drainage plans. He also explained that at the time that they were approved, Newburgh had agreed to sign the Hold Harmless Agreement that Mike had come up with. He stated that in talking with Tom Bodkin who is the Attorney for Newburgh, he has now said that the Hold Harmless Agreements had been previously signed without the consent of the Board and that Ken Hughes had signed them on his own. He explained that Mr. Bodkinís opinion is that the Hold Harmless agreement isnít correct and that it only restates what the law already states. Mr. Morley stated that the Indiana Code states that if a public utility is inside the Right-of-Entry and thru a reconstruction project on the ditch if the Board finds relocation of the pipeline, cable or similar equipment owned by public utility is necessary and the construction or reconstruction of a regulated drain, the cost of the relocation shall be paid by the public utility. Mr. Ashley stated that he is aware of what the law stated. Mr. Morley explained that he was explaining to the Drainage Board what the statute states.
†Mr. Morley further stated that it is the utility departmentís opinion that the Hold Harmless Agreement says the same thing as the State Statute that takes care of relocations or any other work in the legal drain.
Mr. Morley stated that both projects have at least 3 feet of cover beneath the flow line of the ditch, which is what is required by IDEM, so that neither line is in any danger of being hit by anything. He stated further that if by chance a ditch would have to be dredged or relocated, then by Indiana law they have to pay to move their line. He also stated that in Charlestown Square they have a water crossing and a sanitary sewer crossing next to one another and Mr. Ubehlorís is basically just a sanitary sewer crossing. Mr. Morley also stated that if they arenít allowed to cross a regulated drain then they will have little sewer plants all over the County.
Mr. Ubehlor had the same comments as Mr. Morley except he described the type of cast iron pipe they were using and that they were also casting them in concrete. He further stated that nobody wants these pipes to bust or to be dug up by mistake.
Karan asked if Charlestown was going to do an open cut or bore? It was answered that it was an open cut and was approved before without flowable fill but if flowable fill is required they would do that.
Karan asked Don Ashley that if the covenant is not required and they do cut the ditch and put a line in and something happens does the County have some recourse?
Don Ashley answered that he has basically stated the substance of the law, thatís correct, the cost of any relocation or replacement is with the utility or whoever installed the line. He further explained that the reason for these Hold Harmless Agreements is periodically the County does maintenance work in these drains. He explained that accidents do happen and in the course of repairing or reconstructing these drains, should something† happen to the† lines the County doesnít want our contractor ,who is there doing maintenance work to be responsible in the repairing damages to the sewer and water lines, therefore the need for a Hold Harmless Agreement.
Mr. Morley stated that he saw earlier in the law section that they mentioned crops but they didnít mention anything else, but he assumed the intent to be the same for a sanitary sewer crossing.
Don Ashley stated that he thinks that is the effect of the law, but the Drainage Board always wanted to make it absolutely clear and certain to whoever was installing these lines that the County would be in the legal drain periodically doing repair work and should there be any damage to those lines, the utility is in there at their own risk and the County does not want to be responsible for damages to someone elseís utility line. He stated that was the purpose of the Hold Harmless.
Mr. Morley stated that he didnít know how you would damage any of these lines, both were approved by IDEM and also by the local utility board, they both have 3 feet of cover.
Jack Pike made motion to table this matter so that this could be previewed a little further, 2nd by Commissioner Conner. Motion carried 3-0.
Ralph Blake spoke to the Commissioner and complemented them on a job well done for a first meeting.
Commissioner Pike made motion to recess, 2nd by Commissioner Conner, Motion carried 3-0.