WARRICK COUNTY DRAINAGE BOARD
JANUARY 2, 2002
MEMBERS PRESENT:†††††††††††††††††††††† Don Williams, President: Jack Pike, Secretary; Don
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Ashley, Attorney for Board; Karan Barnhill,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Surveyor and Rod Madden, Deputy Surveyor.
ALSO PRESENT:†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Paul Bair, Tony Boyer, John F. Hillenbrand,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Ralph W. Blake, Rex Burdette, Donald Barr,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Jerry Newton, Shirley Barr, Helen Newton,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Bryan Diehl, Wayne Weus, Frank Naas, Rebecca
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Hennessy, James K.Henton, Jack Burgdorf,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Alvin C. Tuter, Jim Beaven and S.B. Churchill.
The first order of business was the approval of minutes from December 19, 2001.
Commissioner Pike made a motion to table the approval, as the minutes were not available, 2nd by President Williams. Motion carried 2-0.
ELECTION OF DRAINAGE BOARD OFFICERS:
Commissioner Pike made a nomination that Don Williams be elected President of the Warrick County Drainage Board, 2nd by Don Williams. Commissioner Don Williams duly elected as Drainage Board President by a vote of 2.
Commissioner Pike nominated Carl Conner as Vice-President, 2nd by President Williams. Commissioner Conner duly elected as Drainage Board Vice-President by a vote of 2.
President Williams nominated Jack Pike as Secretary of the Drainage Board, 2nd by Commissioner Pike. Commissioner Pike duly elected as Secretary by a vote of 2.
Commissioner Pike made a motion to appoint Don Ashley as Attorney for the Drainage Board, 2nd by President Williams. Mr. Ashley duly appointed as Attorney for Drainage Board by a vote of 2.
President Williams stated that the record should show for the year of 2002 that Don Williams was elected as President; Carl Conner as Vice-President; Jack Pike as Secretary and Don Ashley was the appointed Attorney.
President Williams stated that the Resolution without stating the dateís day for day will be the 1st and 3rd Wednesday of each month from January through December at 3:00 P.M.
Commissioner Pike made a motion to approve the resolution of 2002-1 for meeting dates for the Drainage Board, 2nd by President Williams. Motion carried 2-0.
CERTIFICATION OF ACTIVE DRAINS:
Karan stated that a copy of the certified drains was given to each member of the Board, however in speaking with President Williams the calculations did not match up. She asked that the certification be continued until next meeting.
Commissioner Pike made a motion to continue the Certification of Active Drains, 2nd by President Williams. Motion carried 2-0.
Karan Hargrave-Barnhill, Surveyor stated that this subdivision is located on Telephone Road next to Tanglewood Subdivision. The plans that had been submitted had errors on them, Mr. Bivins did not have time to correct the plans and she asked for a continuance.
Commissioner Pike made a motion to continue Sandals Subdivision until the 16th of January, 2nd by President Williams. Motion carried 2-0.
Karan explained that this is a re-plat of lot 21 in Ridgewood Subdivision, a division of two lots. She stated that the engineer has submitted a letter requesting that no drainage be required. Karan agreed that drainage plans were not required since the division would not have enough impervious area to warrant a drainage system or plans. She explained that this property this is located on Holly Drive and Blue Spruce Drive.
John Hillenbrand owner of lot 7 in Ridgewood Subdivision and he is against dividing the lot into 2 lots.
President Williams explained that this was the drainage board and only had to do with the drainage plans.
Mr. Hillenbrand stated he just wanted on record at all three meetings that he is against it.
Mr. Berry Churchill owner of lot 5 in Ridgewood Subdivision spoke and asked where the drainage would go?
Karan stated that it looks like it will drain towards Mr. Hillenbrands property from the contours on the plan. She asked if the water went that way now.
President Williams stated that he didnít think it would change the direction of the flow.
Mr. Paul Bair came to the podium and introduced himself and stated that he lives on Lot 23. He explained that a creek runs from lot 22 down the subdivision and that it is causing erosion on his lot. Mr. Bair stated that he is against splitting the lots and putting another house there, as it will just make more water to run down the hill.
Karan stated that just one house and driveway would not constitute enough impervious area to require retention, as that is the way the water is running now.
Mr. Bair stated that he understands that but he needs someone to fix the problem that he has now without adding another house and driveway.
President Williams asked if there was a swale or ditch that runs between lots 21 & 22?
Mr. Bair answered that there is a creek that runs along side lots 21, 22 and all the way down the subdivision.
Mr. Bair pointed out on the plan where his lot was eroding and how the creek ran.
Karan stated that she would come out and see if there would be anything that can be done but the plan that has been reviewed does not constitute doing a drainage plan.
Mr. Rex Burdette came to the podium and stated that he resides at 6777 Cedar Lane and he owns the property directly behind the property in question and he also has drainage problems. He stated that he had called the Surveyorís Office a few months ago about some issues with having a lot of erosion and someone needs to come out and take a look at it. He added that he did not know what the person developing the lot was going to do but there are a lot of trees there and if he takes them out it will not help the situation any it will only make it worse, the water seems to hold there for a while and then it comes down so hard and fast that it is eroding the ground and roots of trees that he has planted there. Mr. Burdette stated that he had tried to fix it once but that it didnít take and he had called this office and told them not to come out and dig any ditches until he was finished as he has a lot of costly blue spruce trees that he does not want destroyed. He also added that he is definitely opposed to this project.
Karan asked if the Engineer or Owner of the property was present, since neither were at the meeting, she stated that she could come out and look to see if there is anything that the County could do but she also added that at this point one house and one additional lot is not going to create such a problem that it would keep them from developing.
Mr. Burdette asked if they were going to take out any of the trees, as this would just cause more erosion.
Karan answered that she did not know.
Mr. Burdette asked if she doesnít know then how was that drainage control?
Karan stated that she could pull out the drainage plans for the original subdivision.
Commissioner Pike asked if anyone had been out there to look at this piece of ground?
President Williams stated that he did not realize it was on the agenda and he had not been out to look at it. He also asked if there was anyone in the audience to represent the sub-dividing of this lot? He added that since there was no representation he would like to table this until such time as the Board has a chance to look at it.
Commissioner Pike made a motion to table Ridgewood Subdivision, 2nd by President Williams. Motion carried 2-0. This will be continued until the next Board meeting, which will be January 16, 2002 at 3:00 P.M.
Karan asked that everyone present for Ridgewood Subdivision please make sure that you signed the sheet and put your phone number on it so she could contact everyone.
Rebecca Hennessy who resides at Lot 24 on Holly Drive stated that this affects her property also.† She also stated she has erosion problems caused by the creek. She added that where they have staked out the property, if they take out the trees it would make it worse. She stated she is opposed to the drainage plan. She explained that she would not be here for the next meeting as she will be out of town; but she wants to state her opposition to this matter for the next meeting.
President Williams stated that she could send a written remonstrance to Drainage Board 107 W. Locust, Courthouse Room 207 Boonville, IN† 47601.
Commissioner Pike stated that there have been many concerns about the drainage in that area. He added that he would like to see this tabled so that the Drainage Board & Surveyor can take a look at the property in question.
President Williams stated that there has been nothing done about the dividing of the lot to date with this Board only reviewing it for drainage. He further explained that the remaining meetings this will be tabled as well. He also asked if anyone knew who the developer is?
Commissioner Pike answered that it was Dan Buck.
Mr. Alvin Trater who resides on Lot 2 stated that his lot does not adjoin the lot that is being discussed but that he has called the Drainage Board many times to get someone to come out and look at the drainage and also to check the sinkholes in his yard. He added that the street in front of his home has also collapsed because the water has eroded the ground underneath it. He stated that he has never received any action from the Drainage Board and that there are stakes in his yard now to show where they are. He also stated that when the children were trick or treating one of them stepped in it and it is deep enough that it could have easily broken a leg. He added that they have not received any action and have called several times. He stated that the sinkhole is at the corner of Cedar and Blue Spruce.
President Williams explained that what this Board deals with primarily other than subdivision drainage are legal drains. He explained that this Board cannot put a ditch in the subdivision but this Board is only reviewing the drainage to determine if it will be detrimental to the adjoining properties. He again stated there will not be any decision made at the Commissioners meeting which is next as it will also be tabled.
An unidentified gentleman came to the podium and asked if he needed to remain for the next meeting to remonstrate against this particular subdivision.
President Williams told him that this subdivision would be put on hold at any of the following meetings until a decision is made by the Drainage Board.
The gentleman asked that all the complaints that were registered at this meeting will also go on record at the next meeting?
President Williams stated that they couldnít be registered at the Commissionerís Meeting but that it would be tabled and rescheduled. He added that the Drainage Board starts at 3:00 P.M. and the Commissionerís Meeting is following, this is all on the 16th of January.
Mr. Tony Boyer who resides at Lot 1 in Ridgewood Subdivision wants to draw the attention of the Board to the fact that the erosion starts at his lot and he has called the engineering department countless times trying to get something done. He added that this will eventually eat under the road. He also asked that whoever is coming to look at this problem needs to look at the bottom of his lot because you can see under the street. He further added that this is going to be a major problem if it is not dealt with soon. He added that his address is 6722 Blue Spruce Drive.
Commissioner Pike stated that if it affects a road there will be something done about it, but on subdivisions, once the drainage has been approved basically it is in the hands of the landowner unless it is a legal drain.
Mr. Boyer stated that someone has come out a couple of times and filled the hole with dirt and if there is any rain it just washes away.
President Williams stated that it may need some riprap to slow the flow.
Mr. Jim Beaven who resides on Lot 3, which is on Cedar Lane stated that the erosion is coming from underground. He added that the last time this problem occurred there was a hole in the street which was probably caused by an underground mine. He also added that on the drainage problem that all the owners have big lots with lots of grass and tree area that stops erosion and the point that we are trying to make here today is that this is the first time anybody has come in and tried to split these lots up and start making small lots and Ms. Barnhill made the statement that changing one lot is not a big deal and itís not, but once you set the precedence then anybody can come in and divide these lots. He added that he could build 3 houses on his lot, but they donít want this started, itís just not the one lot itís the beginning of ruining the subdivision.
President Williams stated that the Commissionerís were not in favor of spot zoning.
Mr. Jack Burgdorf who resides at lot 4 in Ridgewood Subdivision stated that on the letter the residents received there is a 4:00 meeting today and an Area Plan Commission scheduled for January 17th.
President Williams stated that there is a Commissionerís Meeting that takes care of Area Plan Commission business, but the actual Area Plan Meeting is on the 17th of January at 6:00 P.M.
Mr. Burgdorf stated that his point was they were homeowners that didnít want to be running to Boonville to attend meetings but if that is what it takes to prevent this then that is what we will do. He asked if the meeting on the 16th would have an effect on the meeting of the 17th?
Sherri Phillips answered that if they approve the drainage and street plans on the 16th then it will be heard at the APC meeting on the 17th, if they are not approved on the 16th then the plat cannot be approved. She added that the residents need to be at the meeting on the 16th to find out if it will be heard at the 17th APC meeting.
President Williams stated that the 16th is the important meeting and if it is not approved on the 16th then it will be a dead issue.
Commissioner Pike stated that the residents have raised a lot of issues that need to be looked at.
President Williams stated that the Board was unaware of these problems and that is what the Board is there for, he then asked if there were any other comments?
Mr. Ralph Blake resident of Warrick County since 1959, thanked the residents for coming to the meeting to be heard and stated that the Commissioners were making an effort to do whatís right. He added that in the past there were 33 subdivisions that did not live up to their agreement.
President Williams reminded the audience that there had been a motion and a second to table until January 16th at 3:00 P.M and the Board would discuss this further after the members of the Drainage Board has had a chance to look at the problem.
Karan stated that as she reported to the Board earlier in the year her crew did a level circuit of this ditch from Chandler all the way to the end at Colonial Hills and in doing a lot of review and discussions with several different people, our intent is to try to find a different way for the ditch to drain down to the river instead of going back to Chandler and try to alleviate some of the flooding that occurs at Pigeon Creek. She added that she discussed with R.W. Armstrong the possibility of doing a study of the ditch and at the time she requested it she did not realize the amount of money that would be required. She further explained that R.W. Armstrong came back with a proposal to do a detailed study stating that they would do the study for an amount not to exceed $39,000.00 and that if they found out that it was not feasible in any way that they would back out and only bill us for the hours worked. She stated she had given the Board a copy of this and she asked Don Ashleyís opinion of how they should continue with this, should they get proposals from different engineers?
President Williams also asked Mr. Ashley to correct him if he was wrong but would it not also have to be taken to the Board of Commissioners since there was a contract involved?
Mr. Ashley stated that he agreed, inasmuch as it involves personal services it doesnít necessarily have to be bid out, but the Board might want to solicit other quotes from other consulting firms.
President Williams stated that his feeling on the matter is that it does need to be alleviated and asked Mr. Ashley if it had to be approved by the Board of Commissioners?
Mr. Ashley answered that he believes this Board can initiate the action, but it has to be approved by the Board of Commissioners.
Commissioner Pike asked Karan if she wanted an engineering study or just RFPís?
Karan answered that she would prefer an engineering study. She added that on RFPís you are only getting qualifications not prices and I think we need a price.
President Williams asked if the Board had decided?
Karan requested quotes for an engineering study of Howard-Williams Ditch.
Commissioner Pike made a motion to take quotes for an engineering study of Howard-Williams Ditch, 2nd by President Williams. Motion carried 2-0.
President Williams advised Karan to proceed with obtaining quotes.
Karan asked if the Board had a list of Engineering firms the County normally used.
President Williams stated that Karan should check with Steve Sherwood, County Engineer. He added that she should send out as many as she wanted and then the Board would narrow them down.
Commissioner Pike stated that specification need to be written up of what is desired of the engineering company.
MITCHEM DITCH II:
Karan explained this ditch runs off of Alcoa Highway on Jerry Folz property where we had a ditching project earlier in the year. She stated that during in the coarse of working the ditch Aigner Construction hit Vectrenís line, which they had to come out and repair. She added that because we lowered the flow line of the ditch Vectren also had to lower their pipe to be 2 feet below and in doing so they made a mess of the ditch. Karan stated that she contacted Vectren and told the administrator that she was not happy with the way the ditch was left and that it needed to be repaired, they replied that their easement was there first and that they did not have to get permission from us and that they could do whatever they wanted to and even indicated that he though we should have gotten their approval to lower the flood line. She told them that she did not agree with that and Vectrenís administrator asked her to provide him with proof of when it became a legal drain. She further stated that in researching the records she found that it became a legal drain in 1905 and when he was contacted and told of the court dockets. She stated that as of this date Vectren has went out to the site and done some additional work and put some riprap in, they still didnít re-establish the flow line, but she wanted it on record with Mr. Ashley reiterating to her that our rights are first with a legal drain and that Vectrenís came afterwards. She asked Don Ashley if this was not correct?
Mr. Ashley stated that the Right-of-Entry is a statutory right, he added that he didnít know where they were searching the records, but the County has been given this right by the State Legislator and it is a statutory right that reverts back to the time when this ditch became a regulated drain. He added that according to the documents that Karan has found dated in 1905 there is no question who has Right-of-Entry.
Commissioner Pike stated that they were probably looking for an easement.
Karan stated that Vectren still havenít established a flow line, but as of now it is draining. She added that in the future if the Board has a problem with the work they did, she asked Don Ashley if the Board could go back and make Vectren correct the work.
Don Ashley stated that the Board could certainly try.
Karan stated that she would like to see how Mitchem Ditch II does through the winter and spring and see if itís something that we need to follow up on and see if the Board can make Vectren establish a flow line if needed. She added that the riprap is actually higher than the flow line was established.
President Williams stated that there was n need to make a motion on this subject.
ROSEBUD LANE: TORTE CLAIM:
Karan explained that she wanted it to be on record that she as Surveyor not the Drainage Board was served with a lawsuit regarding Rosebud Lane and an accident that resulted in death.
President Williams stated that this was the accident where the vehicle turned upside down and the driver was from Tell City. He and Commissioner Pike stated this was an unfortunate accident.
Karan stated that she had pulled out the drainage plans as she was not in office when the drainage was approved, but the original approved plans didnít show the basin and in the second approved plans it showed up but it was not a part of the drainage plan. She added that this was not something required by the Drainage Board.
LITTLE PIGEON CREEK BRIDGE 200:
Karan explained that she received a letter from a consultant the Commissioners had employed to propose plans for a bridge replacement over Little Pigeon Creek. She stated that they indicate in the letter that the waterway, which is Little Pigeon Creek, is inadequate and the roadway usually floods. She explained that it then states that no modification of the channel is expected or necessary for the construction of this replacement structure. Karan wants to contact the engineering company and discuss with them the possibility of doing some revisions to the channel. She explained that her point is that it cannot be both ways. She stated she is going to send them a letter indicating that they need to discuss this with her.
Commissioner Pike stated they are planning on raising the road and straightening out a curve, so when they raise the road which will keep it from flooding. He also stated they plan to straighten out the bridge which is at an angle.
Karan stated that there is going to be some construction in the waterway but they didnít send her any plans, she is going to request some plans to show her what they are going to do.
Commissioner Pike stated that they have not been drawn up as yet and that they are in the process of notifying everybody involved. He added that there were a lot of agencies to be notified because of the wetlands and DNR.
ALLEN DITCH & S.R.662 BY-PASS:
Karan explained that she had received plans from the Corradino Group and in the construction of S.R.662 by-pass there is going to have to be some relocation of Allen Ditch at Ellerbusch Road. She said that their question to her and it is probably going to have to be answered by our attorney, right now where our ditch is we have a 75 foot Right-0f-Entry, if you take the 75-foot Right-of-Entry the houses that are constructed there now are in the legal drain Right-of-Entry. This subdivision is in the Town of Newburgh so her question is does this mean this is Newburghís problem or is it still a legal drain in the Countyís jurisdiction?
Commissioner Pike stated that when they annexed that portion it becomes Newburghís responsibility.
Karan stated then the only portion the Drainage Board would have to worry about is the portion that is outside the Town of Newburgh and that would be along the Porterís property where we did the culvert work at the beginning of the year.
President Williams stated that the only thing thatís going to affect that is if the by-pass comes into being and that is still being decided because INDOT with the improvement of S.R.66 and with I-164 being there, INDOT feels like that is sufficient because building a by-pass at S.R.662 would be a waste of taxpayers money.
Karan asked if we relocate a ditch and there is already existing structures in the Right-of-Entry and we have to relocate the ditch what happens to the structure?
Don Ashley answered because we have the Right-of-Entry does not give us the authority to ignore any permanent structures that exist within the Right-of-Entry. He further stated we would try to avoid the situation where they would have to be removed. He asked if these were long standing improvements that had been there a while?
Karan answered that it was Windsor Pointe, which is a new subdivision in the last couple of years. She stated that these were constructed within the Right-of-Entry, but this situation now is in Newburgh so we are out of it.
Commissioner Pike stated that a new culvert was put in the ditch not too long ago and then Newburgh annexed it.
Mr. Ashley asked how were they able to get improvement permits within the ditch?
Karan stated she did not know because it all went through Newburgh and that is why she wondered if it still continues to be a legal drain or does it stop at the town limits?
Mr. Ashley answered that it is a drain within the townís jurisdiction; our cumulative drain fund does not extend into any municipal corporation. He added that in the absence of some cooperative agreement with the municipality we have no authority in the corporate boundaries in any municipality.
Karan stated that she wondered if the Town even realized it was a legal drain or even showed it on the plat as such, because if it were they wouldnít be able to issue permits for houses in it and they say they are 25 feet from the top of bank.
President Williams asked if the public has anything to address to the Board? He then asked Commissioner Pike?
Commissioner Pike asked about Warrick Excavating and Daniel-Hugel Ditch, if the job is incomplete why are we paying it?
Karan answered that we are holding back $1,000.00.
Commissioner Pike stated that very seldom does the Board pay for the job until the job is completed.
Karan stated that all that has to be done by Warrick Excavating is to go out and lay some riprap that he couldnít get in because it was too wet and also dig a silt trap.
President Williams stated that he would like to hold the claim until the job is finished.
Commissioner Pike made a motion to pay the claims with the exception of Warrick Excavating, Inc until the project is complete, 2nd by President Williams. Motion carried 2-0.
President Williams asked if there was anything further to come before the Board, there being none was there a motion to dismiss?
Commissioner Pike made a motion to recess, 2nd by President Williams. Motion carried 2-0.