MARCH 13, 2002

3:00 P.M.



MEMBERS PRESENT:†††††††††††††††††††††† Don Williams, President; Carl Conner, Vice-President; Jack Pike, Secretary; Don Ashley, Attorney for Board; Karan Hargrave-Barnhill and Rod Madden, Deputy Surveyor†††††††††


ALSO PRESENT:†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Mark Chamness, Gary Witty, Don Sowder, Star Sowder, Kim Elsperman, Harold Epley, Cynthia Epley, †† Ralph Blake, Mark Barden, Gary Linton, Roy Foster, Steve Wagner, Roger Willey, Lee McClellan, Shane Clemens, Mark Pickens, Ron Page



The first order of business was the approval of minutes from February 27, 2002.Commissioner Conner made a motion to accept the minutes from February 27, 2002, 2nd by Commissioner Pike.Motion Carries.




Don Williams stated that the next item is the Howard Ditch Survey, Opening Quotes.


Karan Hargrave-Barnhill stated that we have received quotes from the following engineer firms.Morley & Associates, Bernardin Lochmueller & Associates, and R. W. Armstrong.At this time, Don Ashley, Attorney, opened quotes.


Attorney Ashley stated the bid submitted by Morley & Associates is for engineering and surveying.The quote for surveying the project is $10,185, and for the engineering is $36,685 making the total quote $46,870.


Attorney Ashley further stated that the next proposal for grand stated Howard Williams Ditch submitted by Bernardin Lochmueller & Associates.He stated the quote is for a lump sum fee, which provides all labor and materials for preparing the drainage study is $19,600. He further explained that not included in the scope is any additional field study data collection, if required then a supplement to the original agreement at the time and scope of the work will be submitted.


Attorney Ashley then stated the third and final quote is for professional services, drainage study for Howard Williams Ditch in Ohio Township submitted by R. W. Armstrong and Associates, of Indianapolis.The quote and the anticipated work elements and hours shown on proposed schedule work, lump sum fee of $39,000.


Attorney Ashley stated that all the quotes are all rather luminous and he would suggest they take them under advisement.†† Jack Pike made the motion that the Howard Ditch quotes be taken under advisement, the motion was 2nd by Carl Conner. The motion carried, 3-0.







Karan stated that this is a development located on Asbury Cemetery Road in Campbell Township.It consists of 15 lots and all are two and half acres or larger.She further explained that there is a large pit from the mining operation that took place there that this development all primarily drains to. Karan stated they have one culvert under the road that will take the water from the south side of the road over to the pit.She further stated they have provided a drainage easement all the way around the lake to ensure that it would be maintained and kept open for the drainage of the subdivision.Karan then stated that the drainage plans are in order and she recommends approval.


Mark Chamness stated he is representing Chamness Land Surveying.Mr. Chamness explained that Chamness Land Surveying prepared the plans for Chris Combs, who is the developer.Mr. Chamness explained there was no need for delay of approval to wait on Chris Combs.


Commissioner Conner maked the motion to approve the Remington Ridge drainage plans, 2nd by Commissioner Pike.Motion carried, 3-0.




Karan Hargrave-Barnhill, surveyor, stated this is a development that is located on Wethers Road on the east side just north of the curve.She explained that this development was approved as a minor subdivision previously and the area that is being subdivided now was one large lot.She stated that they now want to divide that large lot into four lots with three two and half acres or larger and the fourth is about five acres.She stated that they are requesting that no drainage be required because of the size of the lots and stated that she concurs.


Don Williams asked if there is anyone to represent the Arnold Subdivision.Gary Witty stated he is the surveyor that surveyed this property.Don Williams asked if Mr. Witty has any comments.Mr. Witty stated that there are no streets or and is a very basic development.


Don Williams asked if there are any comments or questions from the board.


Jack Pike asked why they are not hooking into the sewer, which is not too far from the location.Mr. Witty stated he believes there is a high-pressure line and for expense reason they have opted to go with a septic system.Jack Pike asked if they are within 300 feet of the sewer.Mr. Witty stated he does not know if they are within 300 feet but knows there is a sewer line that runs down the west side of the road from the property line which is probably less that 300 feet.Mr. Witty explained he thinks this was discussed with Aaron Franz who gave them the option of which ever was easier the septic system or tying into the sanitary sewer.


Don Williams asked for comments from the public concerning the Arnold Subdivision.There were none.


Don Williams asked for the rule of the board.Carl Conner moved that they approve the drainage plans for Arnold Subdivision as submitted with the recommendation county surveyor.Seconded by Commissioner Pike.Motion carried 3-0.





Karan Hargrave-Barnhill, surveyor, stated this is a continuation of the existing Summit Pointe Subdivision and is the last section to develop to finish that development off.She explained that the reason they are filing a new drainage plan was because the primary had expired so they had to start the process all over to finish this section out.She further explained they have made one minor change to the drainage plans and that was instead of twin pipes going under the road they are now opting to put one large culvert that has the same size opening that will handle the same amount of water.She stated they opted to change it out to a one single structure instead of twins.She stated the drainage plans are in order and she recommends approval.


Don Williams asked for any questions from the board.Don Williams asked Mr. Morley if he would like to add anything.Mr. Morley replied I felt it is all in tact and complies with the ordinance.


Don Williams asked if there are any comments from the public on Summit Pointe E.


Don Sowder stated he lived in Summit Pointe Lot 103, which is adjacent to the property in question.Mr. Sowder stated that he has a ditch that runs along the corner of his lot, which he assumes they will have the water drain into.He further stated the culvert underneath the road is smaller than what it should be.He also stated that Shane Clemens has gone and looked at it.Stating that they are putting in a different culvert but he doesnít want to do anything with the ditch.He stated the previous problem with water backing up the side of the ditch which is caving in.He stated the developer does not want to do anything to fix that problem, they have had problems with the subdivision flooding and people have lost claims on cars and things.He stated they fixed the problem, on the other end of the subdivision but they never progressed back this far to fix this problem there is no more high water but says he does not know what the plan is as for the drainage on the property.


Karan asked if Don Sowder had stated he lived in lot 103.Mr. Sowder confirmed he does live on lot 103 on the corner of Summit Pointe, Karan asked, Mr. Sowder if he is saying that the problem is the culvert under the road at that intersection.Karan stated that the item Mr. Sowder is talking about is not in this particular drainage plan.Karan stated that the item he is addressing is the culvert that Mr. Clemens has provided the funds to the Commissioners, to correct that problem.


Mr. Sowder stated they brought in dirt and raised the grade of the ground next door, and his lot is lower so the water would drain off of that lot onto his property, and he doesnít want any problems to occur from that.Carl Conner stated that he doesnít know if they have actually scheduled a time to put that culvert in but he knows it is supposed to be done.Mr. Conner also stated that since it is getting warm it will probably be drying up and hopefully the new culvert will take care of all these problems.


Karan stated that lot 102 is higher that lot 103, so when it rains the storm water is going to come over on lot l03.Karan then asked if that is the case and if it is, is there anyway a swale could be created along the lot line of lot 102 to keep that storm water contained.She stated that she hasnít seen the lot in question, but the plans show that lot 103 has already been developed and set up.She asked if there is a drainage swale that runs down the property line and collects the run off from the lots that are higher to be carried out either to the back swale or take it across the sidewalk out into the gutter which will then goes down and collects into the curve inlets.


Mr. Sowder then explains his ditch just run around to the corner of the lot, and does not run on the property line.


Karan asked Mr. Sowder to verify from which point the picture was taken from.Karan then asked if the storm water is breaking in the middle of the lots and taking half to the front and half to the back to the swale.


At that property line, that is the ditch.The ditch comes across the road and comes back behind.The culvert he is talking about, that is causing the problem is right there.The water that runs along that property line would go back to that ditch, and some would go to the front.As you go up the hill, each lot would be stair stepped.They state that Shane has addressed the point that he is not done doing final grading on any of those lots.Karan asked Mr. Sowder if that answers his question.Mr. Sowder then replied that he does understand and stated that they are going to carve a ditch behind the property line and join the ditch that is non-existing.Karan asked Mr. Sowder if this is ok and he says yes.Karan stated that she has not been to this particular lot.


Lee McClellan stated that at the property line there is a ditch, which comes across the road and then back behind the lots.Mr. Clellan further stated that the culvert he is talking about is causing he problem is located at lot 103 in the road and the water that runs along that property line would go back to that ditch, and some would go to the front.He explained that as you go up the hill, each lot would be stair stepped.He further stated that Shane has not done final grading on any of those lots.Karan asked Mr. Sowder if that answered his question.Mr. Sowder then replied that he does understand and stated that they are going to carve a ditch behind the property line and join the ditch that is non-existing.Karan asked Mr. Sowder if he was satisfied and he stated he was.


Star Sowder stated she also lives on lot 103 and asked if they were going to connect this into the ditch they are already having problems with or if they were going to start developing more property on their end.She stated if they run the water into the ditch that exists now is not big enough the this situation is going to get that problem fixed at the corner when culvert is way to small.

Discussion was held regarding the culvert replacement and the direction the storm water would drain.


Ms. Sowder explains if they donít get that fixed before they start grading the new lots are going to be having all kinds of flood problems again.Ms. Sowder said with the flooding last year the ditch became very deep.Ms. Sowder wanted to know how the ditch will hold if they donít fix the problem at Summit Point.


Karan asked if the ditch isnít large enough or if the culvert isnít large enough.


Ms. Sowder replied that the culvert isnít large enough to handle the storm water but the ditch fills completely up and goes over into the street at that point.Ms. Sowder stated that last year when they had the flash floods the water went over into the street because the culvert was not big enough.


Star Sowders asked if they go ahead and develop the back part of that property and run it into the drainage ditch that canít hold the water now if flash flood before the problem is corrected then they will be right back where they started.Ms. Sowder asked how long before they will be able to put the culvert in.


Mr. Conner stated he does not know what the schedule is for the culvert but he would assume they have been waiting for the weather to get better.Mr. Conner explained that a decision has been made to replace it with a larger culvert and there has already been a payment from the developer to offset the costs.


Ms. Sowder asked a culvert was going in explaining that the culvert that is in now is approximately 22Ēx 25Ē.Mr. Conner stated that he is unsure of the size but it is going to be larger.


Ms. Sowder stated that the water is already digging a gully out, and is going through the property eroding everything there.She stated it is her property so she wants to know where they stand on this.Ms. Sowder stated she is aware they will have to come in and dig out part of her property, which is fine, however she would like to make sure it is going to alleviate their problems.


Ms. Sowder was asked to leave her phone number after the meeting so they can call her and gave her the exact size of the pipe and more information.Karan suggest that Shane Clemens work with the Highway Engineer Dept. when they get ready to grade this ditch out that maybe they can work together to make sure everyone is happy.


Lee McClellan made the statement that the culvert is going to double in size.He further stated that the pipe is going to be an elliptical pipe. He explained that the current culvert is staying there and they are placing another elliptical pipe next to it.He continued stating that the existing culvert that is under Summit Point way is a 2 x 3 box six square feet of opening and where the problem came to effect is when the culvert was replaced out at Martin Road several years ago that culvert was upsized to a 48 inch round corrugated metal pipe and was done by Steveís department.Mr. McClellan further stated that a 48 inch corrugated metal pipe has almost 12 Ĺ square feet of opening.He explained that the downstream structure which was adequate at the time that there was a smaller culvert under Martin Road, now you are handing twice the capacity from the west side to the east side of Martin Road and itís just a matter of about 600 feet to this other culvert which is only six square feet, so there has been a problem caused by the upstream structure.


Don Williams asked if there is anyone else that would like to address this issue.


Kim Ellsperman of 5156 Terrytown stated she is a homeowner on the property that will touch the south side of where this development is going to be.Ms. Ellsperman continued stating that she would consider that to be a back lot to her property.†† Ms. Ellsperman stated her home actually sits on Sleepyhollow and has a ditch on the east side of the house that runs back into the Summit Pointe property which also a ditch that goes through the back lot.Ms. Ellsperman is concerned about the drainage structure not having seen anything of what the future plans are how that drainage system can effect her property.Ms. Ellsperman stated that when it rains now the back lot has a lot of standing water on it.Ms. Ellsperman believes their property is one of the lowest properties in that area.

Karan takes the plans and shows Kim Ellsperman what the plans are so she will have a better understanding of the future plans.Karan and Kim discuss the plans between themselves.It is explained to Ms. Ellspreman that the water will flow away from her property once the plans are completed.


Don Williams asked if anyone else has comment from the public.


Harold Epley of 6588 Yorktown Court stated he owns rental property at 5112 Martin Road.Mr. Epley stated from what he can tell on the plans, his property backs up to where the new ditch will be cut.Mr. Epley further stated the property has been filled with about two foot of dirt, which is adjacent to Mr. Epleys property a year or two ago when development was being done.He explained how the property has already been raised where the water runs back towards his property.He then stated he hasnít caused anything sever that he has noticed at this point.Mr. Epleys worry is when they go building houses in this area that the water will run back towards his property and causing him problems on his property.


Cynthia Epley of 6588 Yorktown Court states she is co-owner of the rental property at 5112 Marin Road.Ms. Epleys concern is the fill dirt will elevate the land to make the water flow back onto their property.


Karan explains to Ms. Epley that they have to bond the streets and the storm drainage structures, and the money is held until the development is completed and inspected to make sure there are no other problems.Karan goes on to explain that they either have to put a structure in or build a ditch when developing a subdivision to provide somewhere for the storm water to go.


Ms. Epley stated that she does not agree with the plans for the ditch in this area.


Don Williams asked if there is any comments or any questions from the board.


Commissioner Pike stated that the only thing has to add since the people are so concerned about this project is we need to go back and determine what size of culvert is going in.It is stated that they are going from a 25-year structure to a 50-year structure.Based on the street grade we couldnít put in a round pipe so they had to use the elliptical pipe to make sure there is proper coverage over it.


Commission Pike recommends they table this issue for the next meeting so they can go back and talk to the Highway Engineer to make sure they are addressing all the water problems.Motion made by Commissioner Pike, 2nd by Commissioner Conner.


Don Williams stated this issue would be brought back up in two weeks at the next meeting.Don Williams stated Motion carries.


Karan Hargrave-Barnhill explains there will not be a second meeting in March so the continuation of this issue will be brought up in the meeting the second week of April.




Karan Hargrave-Barnhill stated this is a development by the Economic Development of Commissioners that is a re-flap of the existing industrial park that is located on the south side of Indiana State Road 62.Karan explains they have created a few more lots, extended the roadway, to the west and in review of the drainage plans they have reduced the retention basin that was originally approved.Karan further stated it was oversized to begin with, so they have reduced that basin which is located on 25 and made it a wet basin, and met all the requirements with the spillway, the outflow structure going out underneath the railroad trestle into an existing ditch flowing to the west to Kelly Prong.She further stated they have also created a detention basin, which is a dry basin, which will be located in the southwest corner of the development and be partially located within the legal draining right of entry.††


Karan stated that since it is a county development, Karan discussed this issue with the attorney and he said it wasnít necessary to enter into a convent since it would be the county to the county kind of condescending.Karan has required they put a detail of that basin in relation to the top of bank to the legal drain, as sure as the outflow structures going into the legal drain to ensure it wouldnít impede the flow and it would drain properly.Karan stated the only question she has is the vacation of the existing retention basin, and has it been filed.Don Williams confirmed.


Karan asked if the Commissioners at the next meeting will address this, or when it will be vacated.Commissioner Conner says the documents have been sent out to vacate it, but it hasnít officially been filed with the auditor.Karan stated that if the board wishes to approve this, it would have to be subject to the vacation of the area that it is no longer included in the retention basin that is located on lot number 25.


The layout of the property is discussed between the board members.What would have to be vacated is the temporary drainage easement that was constructed when phase one was constructed.


Karan stated that when the original development was done, they oversized it and allowed them to use the existing low area as a retention area because they didnít know how this was going to be developed.It is agreed at this time that this was just a temporary easement.Karan stated it does meet all the other requirements with that exception and she recommends approval.


Don Williams asked if there are any questions or any comments from the public.


Ralph Blake stated he has lived in Warrick County since 1959.In reference to the Industrial Park, what they have done is moved a lot of dirt and things around.Mr. Blake goes on to explain that everyone that comes in has a different idea of what should be done.†† Ralph Blake further stated he believes that instead of changing everything around every time the politic scene changes nail something down and stick with it. Mr. Blake wonders if there are prospects now that can be followed up on and get something to happen.


Commissioner Pike stated that we are looking at very strongly for the Industrial Park.That is the reason the land is being leveled and the sewer lines are being moved.


Mark Barden, with A & B Investments, stated they are owner of lot 8 in the Industrial Park.Mr. Barden would like to see how the grading is going to change in adjacent to lot 8.††† Mr. Barden asked if they plan on keeping the swale along the backside of lot 19.


Mr. Pike reply to his question was yes; they will be keeping the existing swale.He further stated the existing swale comes down just as it does now.He explains the swale is used to turn and go across it will continue on south and will be picked up in a pipe and carry it on to the detention basin, and then the lots will grade from the north to the south and step down.Mr. Barden stated they do have a rather large bank at the back of their lot.


Don Williams asked if there are any more questions from the public.


Gary Linton, maintenance supervisor for American Cold Storage, stated he does not really have any problems, just a concern he would like to address.Mr. Linton asked when the construction for the drainage starts, what is going to prevent the dust and mud getting into his refrigeration system which pulls air off of the roof he will be in big trouble.This would cost him down time, money to have more chemical treatment done.If there is any mud carried into the driveway and gets on the trucks, the department of agriculture is going to bring smoke on them.


Roy Foster stated he is representing the Industrial Park the engineers estimate was also included in the excavation was dust control.Mr. Foster further stated they do have rules and a temporary construction entrance that should control the mud.Mr. Foster goes on to say they will make sure their contractor is aware of this and it is in the bid proposal from the liability stand point that they are aware of their responsibilities with regards to dust and mud.


Karan stated that the mud issue would also be handled with the soil conservation.Mr. Foster stated that they have filed one.It is broke out but in round figures for erosion control is around $60,000 budgeted for erosion control on the property.


Don Williams asked if there is any other questions or comments.


Don Williams asked for rule of board.


Jack Pike motions to approve the drainage plan for Warrick Industrial Park.


Don Williams asked for 2nd.Carl Conner 2nd the motion with the stipulation that the temporary easement is vacated on lot 125.


Jack Pike includes that in the motion.Don Williams stated motion made to approve the drainage Warrick Industrial Park depending on the vacation of the present collection basin.Motion carries, 3-0.




Karan Hargrave-Barnhill stated this is a development located directly across from the Industrial Park on the north side of State Road 62.It is Cornerstone Business Park and the large lot in the back will have the Super Wal-Mart store located on it.During review and working with Mr. Willey, a couple problems came up.


Karan explains that the easements are taking the water off of the building into two structures and draining them into the basin to ensure the storm water on that large of parcel with that much asphalt and building would not escape the property so they are collecting it into the structures going into a basin.She states there will be a discharge structure that is going to be discharging into Kelly Prong Ditch.†† Karan further stated in review and checking with other agencies and with the statutes, she believes they cannot directly discharge storm water from a basin into a natural storm water drainage area that is not defined as an easement or a legal drain.


Karan asked for a temporary drainage easement that would encompass this drainage area taking it to the legal drain so when the property is developed, they can come in and redo this without having to go through a lot of vacations.Karan further stated that the document would be recorded with the secondary plan in cross referenced with it.Karan stated they had provided the document today, however she hasnít had a chance to review the legal description.Karan explains that they have met all the requirements.


Don Williams asked for any recommendations.Karan recommends they be approved.


Jake Pike makes a motion to approve the drainage plan for the Cornerstone Business Park, Carl Conner 2nd.Motion carries.





Don Williams stated Adelphia Cable Communication requests for line in legal drain.


Don Williams stated he believes it is already there, and Karan replied yes, when they sent their mowing crew out to mow Cypress Creek it was brought to their attention that a line has been laid along and inside the right of entry.Karan further stated they contacted the company with Adelphia, they immediately responded, brought in a drawing showing where the line is in conjunction with the top of bank along that area in Lincoln Wood.


Karan stated that apparently the developer of Lincoln Wood told them that it was ok to put their line anywhere within that area not realizing it was a legal drain.Karan said she had contacted them and told them they needed to go to the drainage board to get approval and they would also have to enter into a convent to hold the county harmless incase they did have to do any ditching.Karan goes on to state that they have met all their requirements and Adelphia is present to ask permission to leave their line in the legal drain of right entry.


A representative from Adelphia Cable stated they didnít look at the easements close enough on the map.He further stated the developer told them they could move the easement to the rear and they proceeded to do so.It is an operating system and they do have customers online there.††


Don Williams asked Karan Hargrave-Barnhill when the last time Cypress Creek was cleaned.Karan said that portion maybe around 7 or 8 years.Don Williams then said they are probably looking at cleanup before too long.Karan stated that is why they done the grinding, to get it ready for some improvements.


Don Williams asked for any comments from the public.


Don Williams asked for a motion.


Carl Conner moves to leave allow the cable to stay where it is with the signing of an agreement.


Don Williams stated motion made to allow the cable to stay where it is with the signing of agreement, is there a second.Jake Pike 2nd.††† Motion carries, 3-0.




Don Williams stated next item for approval is quote from Bigge at $3.50 for 2,779 feet for a total of $9,726.50.


Karan Hargrave-Barnhill stated she would like for this to be continued for the reason they had just found out today there is another contractor to do the grinding.


Don Williams asked for a motion.Jack Pike makes motion.Carl Conner 2nd.Motion made to table. McCool Ditch is tabled.




Don Williams ask for this item is tabled until the next meeting.Jack Pike makes motion.Don Williams 2nd.Motion for tabled.




Don Williams asked for any other business.


Karan Hargrave-Barnhill state Mr. Wagner is present in regards to place a structure in the legal drain Dennis Wagner Ditch to cross the ditch with his farm equipment.Karan further stated they have sized the structure and it would be a 36Ē that would go in so Mr. Wagner would have access to his farmland.


Jack Pike asked if the size would be big enough.Karan replied by saying yes, she sized it herself.


Don Williams asked if Mr. Wagner will be installing this himself.Karan replied yes.Jack Pike says the only problem they have is farm structures are not big enough and they wash out.Karan explained that is why she had told Mr. Wagner we have to size the structure to make sure the right size was used, and we will inspect it after it is installed.


Don Williams asked if there is any discussion from the public on the proposal.


Don Williams asked for a motion.


Carl Conner moves to allow Dennis Wagner to put in a 36Ē pipe in the ditch for purposes being able to cross over between his fields for agricultural purposes.


Don Williams asked for 2nd.Jack Pike 2nd.Don Williams stated motion made in 2nd.Motion carries.


Steve Wagner stated he has some further concerns on the Dennis Wagner Ditch on south bout a ľ miles from where they are wanting to put this structure in is a legal drain with no ditch.Mr. Wagner would like to discuss sometime possibly the county digging a ditch because with no ditch it floods out the crop in their field.††


Karan Hargrave-Barnhill stated they could put that on their list to come out and look at it and put it on the list of improvements to be done to it.


Mr. Wagner further explains he had talk to Bigge about grinding down the trees that are causing problems for them.


Karan explains to Mr. Wagner that there is another contractor that is interested in fixing that problem as well so we are waiting to see if a better price is available.


Don Williams then stated this would have to be brought up at a different time.




Don Williams asked if the commissioners have had a chance to look over their claims.


Don Williams asked for a motion on the claims.Carl Conner moves to accept the claims as submitted.Jack Pike 2nd.Don Williams stated motion made.Motion carries.