APRIL 9, 2003
MEMBERS PRESENT:†††††††††††††††††† Don Williams, President; Phil Baxter, Vice-
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† President; Carl Conner, Secretary; Don Ashley,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Attorney for Board; Karan Barnhill, Surveyor and
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† ††††††††††† Rod Madden, Deputy Surveyor.
ALSO PRESENT:††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Jim Biggerstaff, Bill Bivins, Mark Grimm,
President Williams called the meeting to order.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
President Williams stated the first order of business was the approval of minutes from the meeting of March 12, 2003 and asked for a motion.
Commissioner Conner made a motion to approve the minutes as presented for March 12, 2003, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.
Karan Barnhill, Surveyor explained there were two quotes to be opened for Seitz Ditch and for Taylor Ditch. She added that Mr. Biggeís were in the same envelope for two separate quotes and that Jerry Aigner Construction also had quotes for both jobs. The sealed quotes were passed to Mr. Ashley, Attorney for the Board.
Mr. Ashley opened the quotes and stated that the first one was from Bigge Excavating, the project is tree grinding and mowing for Seitz Ditch to grind trees and brush on South side of the ditch starting at Tennyson Road going East 578.2 feet, grind all trees and brush 30 feet back from top of bank. He stated that the submitted quote was for $3.00 per foot for a total of† $1,734.00.
Mr. Ashley stated the next quote is submitted by Jerry Aigner Construction for tree grinding and mowing on Seitz Ditch East of Tennyson Road total quote is $5,500.00.
President Williams asked if they both received the same information and was there a sight visit by both of them?
Commissioner Conner asked if there were bids on Taylor Ditch?
President Williams answered that he wanted to finish with Seitz first. He then asked for any discussion on Seitz Ditch?
Commissioner Baxter made a motion to accept the quote from Bigge Excavating for Seitz Ditch in the amount of $1,734.00, 2nd by Commissioner Conner. Motion carried 3-0.
Mr. Ashley, Attorney for Board stated that the first quote is submitted by Bigge Excavating for tree grinding on Taylor Ditch to grind trees and brush on both sides of ditch starting at Yankeetown Road going West approximately 5, 250 feet and to clear back 30 feet from top of ditch bank. He added that it was quoted for $.80 per foot for a total bid of $4,200.00
Mr. Ashley stated the second quote is from Jerry Aigner Construction, Inc. for project of tree grinding and mowing on Taylor Ditch for total quote of $1,150.00.
President Williams asked if maybe the quotes didnít get crossed and put in the wrong envelope.
Commissioner Conner stated that is why he wanted to know if the other quotes were going to be opened, because if you look at the numbers it may have been strictly nothing more than a mistake on his part.
President Williams stated that is what it appears like to him because there is such a difference in the two, but we donít know that for a fact.
Rod Madden, Deputy Surveyor stated that there is definitely something wrong on the Taylor Ditch bid, as that is a mile of ditch.
President Williams said that would be about a $100.00 a mile for ditch cleaning thatís a pretty good deal.
Rod Madden offered to call the parties concerned and Karan asked if it could be postponed until the end of the meeting?
Commissioner Conner stated that even if the bids are in reverse we would have to rescind
the motion that was made and seconded on Seitz Ditch.
President Williams asked Attorney Ashley if the Board could rescind a motion?
Mr. Ashley answered that they could and that these were just quotations and not under the same constraints as the bidding process and that its obvious that a mistake has been made.
Commissioner Conner asked if these quotes could just be taken under advisement until the next meeting and that would give the Surveyor an opportunity to talk to Mr. Aigner.
Mr. Ashley stated that he thought that would be appropriate.
President Williams asked for a motion to rescind the previous motion to accept the quote on Seitz Ditch.
Commissioner Conner made a motion to rescind the original vote in awarding the Seitz Ditch work to Bigge in the amount of $1,734.00, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.
Commissioner Conner also made a motion to table both of the projects until the next regular scheduled meeting which is April 23, 2003 for the purposes of giving the County Surveyorís Office an opportunity to clarify the quotes that were submitted by Jerry Aigner Construction, Inc., 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.
DRAINAGE PLAN APPROVAL
Karan stated that Linwood Subdivision has 21 lots and is located on Lincoln Avenue and is an extension of the first Linwood Subdivision that was done by Greg Moore. She added that she was going to give a brief explanation but she was going to ask that it be continued so that she can meet with the property owners and discuss some problems that have come up. She also stated that the Developing Engineer and one of the owners are also present to answer any questions.
Karan stated that what has happened is that the terrain of the property is such that most of the development drains to the back corner which is where they are putting their retention basin. She added that their release structure is releasing onto adjoining property owners, which in most cases is not a problem if itís a defined waterway that is taking it to Willow Pond Ditch, in this case it looks like their water drains that way naturally, but it is not really a defined ditch. She also stated that her problem is with directly releasing storm water from the retention basin onto these adjoining landowners without their approval and consent.
Karan stated that she has asked the adjoining landowners that this will effect along with the Design Engineer and Developer to set up a meeting and try to work out something. She added that itís a kind of sheet flow condition now and it fans out and drains to Willow Pond Ditch, but what she would like to see is for them to modify their drainage plans to where their release structure actually does that same thing. She also stated that she thinks they are willing to do that and thinks something can be worked out with the landowners as they have some real concerns about erosion. She asked that this be continued.
Commissioner Conner asked if the issues could be resolved by the next meeting?
Karan answered that she thinks they can.
President Williams asked the Developing Engineer, Mr. Jim Biggerstaff, if he had anything to say and was the continuance agreed upon?
Mr. Biggerstaff stated that this has been discussed and he would make revisions on the plan and also meet with the adjoining landowners and he too asked for a continuance.
President Williams asked for a motion to continue.
Mr. Mark Grimm approached the podium, introduced himself and stated that his mother, brother and himself own the land next to Linwood Subdivision. He added that he did not know if this could be resolved by the 23rd of April, he stated that he could not answer that, as he had not seen the plans as yet. He received a plan by registered mail a few weeks ago and his understanding is that it has changed from that and he hasnít even seen that plan or been notified that there were any changes.
Karan answered that there has not been a new plan filed as yet, there may be some minor corrections that she asked for but it is not a re-design.
Mr. Grimm stated that Mr. Moore was gracious enough to give him a large enough copy that he could read and presented it to the Board.
Karan apologized and stated there was a different plan; she had forgotten that they had re-designed it.
President Williams asked Mr. Grimm if he had not had a chance to look at the new plans?
Mr. Grimm replied that he thinks there are two issues; one is that the plans can change without him receiving any notification and he wouldnít have known about it if he had checked on it.
Karan stated that the law does not require that he be notified again until the plan is approved.
Mr. Grimm is discussing something about a ditch on his property that doesnít look like a ditch, but he is not on a microphone and the recorder is just picking up bits and pieces of his discussion.
Commissioner Conner stated that it was his understanding that it was not going to be approved until such time as they work out these issues with Mr. Grimm, and then the Board will take action.
Karan stated that everyone that is concerned should have a meeting next week and try to resolve this issue and they will draw up a new plan from that and then Mr. Grimm will receive the new plan.
She also wanted to explain to him about the gutters and everything going to the one area, that is what she asked them to do. She stated that they want all the storm water to be collected and held in a basin and then released slowly so all of the storm water doesnít come all at once. She added that they require that with all of the new developments.
Commissioner Conner added that if there is no problem with this he would make a motion to continue this project until the next meeting which will be April 23, 2003 and if the matters are not worked out then it can be continued again.
Mr. Grimm stated that he had something else to bring before the Board about his land eroding because the other subdivision that was put in. He added that he has asked the developer to address this problem but with no avail. He also presented pictures to the Board.
President Williams told Mr. Grimm that anything presented to the Drainage Board becomes the Drainage Board property and must go into the meeting file. The pictures that Mr. Grimm presented showed the same location but with 2 years difference and it shows how the land is eroding. He added that the developer wants to put in a swale also but the plans do not show the measurements and from the way the plans are Mr. Grimm doesnít understand where the swale is going to be as there is a steep bank in that location.
Karan stated she would mark it on the plans and they would have to explain to Mr. Grimm how they are going to do this to his satisfaction. She added that all of this can be discussed at the meeting with the landowners and developers, so then a plan can be drawn up.
Mr. Grimm stated that he wanted the Drainage Board to be aware of some of the things before the private meeting. He went on to show the Board drainage plans of another subdivision and how there is no way to maintain it as it is on the property line. He also told the Board that the phone company had to put the phone lines on their property as the retention pond was built where the utility easement should have been.
Karan stated there is no requirement on how far the retention pond has to be off of the property line. She added that when she reviews drainage plans she tries to make sure that there is an area of maintenance but obviously this one was missed and she will ask them to move it from the property line but there is no ordinance that says you have to be 10 feet or so off of the property line.
Karan explained that she was going to have the developers put a distance on the plans and also had them put some type of soil erosion control on the basin to keep it from washing.
Mr. Grimm stated that Karan also told him that once the plan is approved, they can come back and revise the plan, so unless he camps out at the office how is he or anyone else supposed to know when plans are changed.
President Williams asked what the requirements are for this plan being expanded as he doesnít recall that change coming before the Board.
Karan answered that they did come and get an amendment but they were making the basin larger and rerouting one of the drainage structures, it wasnít required that the basin be enlarged, they just chose to do so.
President Williams stated that he thinks Mr. Grimm has a legitimate concern.
There was other discussion on this matter and also about the pictures.
President Williams stated that there has been a request by the County Surveyor to continue Linwood Subdivision, is there a motion.
Commissioner Conner made a motion that the Board grants a continuation of Linwood Subdivision until the next regular scheduled meeting which will be April 23, 2003, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.
RISING SUN SUBDIVISION:
President Williams stated that he understands this is to be continued also.
Karan answered they have requested a continuance on this as well.
Commissioner Baxter made a motion to continue Rising Sun Subdivision until the next scheduled meeting, 2nd by Commissioner Conner. Motion carries 3-0.
FALL CREEK SUBDIVISION:
Karan stated this is a development that is also a continuance of a previous development Mansfield that is located on the corner of Lincoln Avenue and Epworth Road. She added it has 245 residential lots. Karan explained that in the first section of the development they designed the basin large enough to handle the storm water in this development. She added that this is all draining to the retention basin that was designed in Mansfield and it meets all requirements. Karan stated that the only question she has is that there is an existing SIGECO easement.
Mr. John Kraft, Attorney for Mr. Sterchi introduced himself and explained that the easement is not exclusive which gives him rights within the bounds, so long as he doesnít interfere with their use of their land. He added that one of the items contained within the easement specifically provides that the grantee (VECTREN) may not take possession of said right-of-way and easement granted unto it by this indenture for an undetermined amount of time.
Commissioner Conner asked Don Ashley, Attorney for the Board if he agreed with that statement?
Mr. Ashley asked whatís the involvement so far as the SIGECO easement and the regulated drain?
Karan answered that there is not a regulated drain its just a drainage swale that they are going to build to take the storm water to the basin.
Mr. Ashley asked is this within the SIGECO easement?
Jim Morley, Jr. stated it was just a back yard swale.
Mr. Kraft stated that its not a drainage structure per say, itís just the manner in which it will be tapered.
It was also determined that this was all overhead (SIGECO) nothing underground.
Mr. Ashley stated that no permanent structure can be constructed within the easement but he thinks that the landowner would have the right to put in a swale.
Karan stated the drainage plans are in order and she recommends approval.
Commissioner Conner made a motion to approval the drainage request as presented for Fall Creek Subdivision, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried. 3-0
TWIN LAKE FARMS:
Karan stated this is a 4-lot subdivision located on Rockport Road with the lots being 17 to 23 acres and it all drains primarily to Caney Creek which is a regulated drain. She added that they have shown Caney Creek on the plans and have shown the 75-foot Right-of-Entry. They are requesting that no drainage plans be required. She recommends approval.
Mr. Charles Morle who resides at 777 S. Rockport Road and his property abuts the property that is being developed and he wanted to see the plans to the new development.
Mr. Bill Bivins the engineer and Mr. Morle had discussions that the secretary could not hear nor could the recording equipment pick up.
Mr. Morle then asked if these lots were going to be subdivided from these lots and Mr. Bivins answered that if they were they would have to get all new approvals.
Mr. Morle stated that the water pressure in that area was not very good and he was worried about that aspect of it.
President Williams asked if there were any other comments from the Board or the Public?
Commissioner Conner made a motion to approve the drainage plans for Twin Lakes Farms as submitted, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.
LAKEVALE SUBDIVISION REPLAT:
Karan explained that this also needs to be continued.
Mr. Bivins stated that he just received his letter stating that there are no sewers present and an easement needs to be vacated which that meeting is set for May the 14th so maybe this will be ready on May 28th.
President Williams asked for motion to continue.
Commissioner Baxter made a motion to continue Lakevale Subdivision until May 28, 2003 Drainage Board Meeting, 2nd by Commissioner Conner. Motion carried 3-0.
TRIPLE CROWN ESTATES:
Karan stated this is a replat of a lot in Triple Crown Estates and Mr. Jack Tubbs is going to build a commercial complex, there is an existing 10-foot drainage easement that is located there and with moving some lots around it has to be re-platted. She added that Mr. Tubbs is going to vacate the drainage easement, as there is no drainage structure there, the actual drainage structure is located outside of the drainage easement. She stated that the drainage structure was actually moved by the County when they re-did the drainage in Triple Crown Estates a couple of years ago and it was not put back into the easement, so he is going to vacate that drainage easement and in the replat Mr. Tubbs is dedicating an easement along Ruffian Lane and along the Eastern boundary of the new lot line. He will come back with a new drainage plan showing how he is going to re-route the drainage. He just needs approval to get his plat recorded so that he may get the drainage plan dedicated. She stated that this does not need any drainage required at this time, as there will be a plan at a later date.
President Williams asked what Mr. Tubbs needed the Board to do today.
Mr. Tubbs stated he was asking approval to reroute the new drainage easement and tie them into the new subdivision as they are going from 5 lots to 2 lots, they are just redoing the property lines. Mr. Tubbs added that he is anticipating that with a larger lot and one building he is wanting to go ahead and dedicate that future 10-foot drainage easement around the proposed new building, so that will be taken care of and all weíll have to do is vacate the existing easement.
Commissioner Conner asked if this would have any impact on the neighbors across the street on Ruffian?
Mr. Tubbs answered it would not, what they are doing is tying into that existing easement and rerouting it on the East side.
President Williams asked if he needed an approval to reroute the drainage easement?
Mr. Tubbs answered approval for the new drainage easement and we will come back at a later date for the vacation.
Karan stated when they come back before the Drainage Board they will have new drainage plans.
Mr. Billy T. Nicholson stated that it would be easier to build a drainage plan around the building than to try and anticipate what will be there later on.
President Williams asked for comments from the Board or from the public?
Commissioner Conner made a motion to approve the request to move the drainage easement to the new proposed drainage easement in Triple Crown Estates, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carries 3-0.
Karan requested this be continued until the next meeting as she has not received their Hold Harmless Covenant as yet.
Commissioner Baxter made a motion to continue until the next meeting on April 23, 2003, 2nd by Commissioner Conner. Motion carried 3-0.
WARRICK PLACE III-BUEHLERS:
Jon Schnarr approached the podium and introduced himself stating that he works for Universal Design and he is representing Buehler Foods on the proposed gas station.
Karan stated that Buehlerís at Newburgh on 261 wants to add a gas station in one corner and the problem they have run into is the plat was done originally and did not require any retention and did require that each individual property owner or lot owner come back in during each plan and get it approved before they received their building permit. She added that on the recorded plat when it was approved since there was no retention basin
at that time (she asked Don Ashley to look at this also) it shows retention area 2, but it does not denote any easement area, it also has a drainage easement, which drains up to the catch basin, and they store the water in the parking lot. She stated that it was designed that way so it will go into the pipes and drains it out into a ditch.
Karan added that where they want to locate the pumps is right in the area where it shows retention 2, but it is not really a retention basin like we do in normal areas where you canít put any structures in it, so what she had them do since it is not a storm water retention easement as shown on the recorded plat. She stated there is a drainage easement thru there that if they could prove they were still going to store the same amount of water and that it was not going to obstruct the drainage and give her calculations that it would still store the same amount of water that was approved then they would have to vacate the easement, reroute the storm drain in order to make it continue to flow.
Karan stated her question to Mr. Ashley is since that is marked as a retention area does that mean they canít put any buildings or structures in it and can they do what she suggested?
Don Ashley asked if the plat was recorded?
Karan answered yes it was.
Mr. Ashley answered that any change in a drainage easement would have to go through the vacation process.
Karan stated she told them that, but since its marked as a retention area, can they put a building or a gas pump type structure in that area?
Mr. Schnarr stated that the retention area would stay where it is, but the gas station will be outside of where it will pond up in the parking lot.† He stated they are not changing the retention, just how it will drain, it will be rerouted to drain around the building.
Commissioner Conner made a motion to approve Buehlerís request to move the drainage based upon the contingency that it is the present one has been vacated and approved, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0
President Williams asked each member of the Drainage Board if there was any other business to be brought before it?
President Williams stated that item 6 on the claims list which is McCool Ditch has not been completed therefore that $17,850.00 is not going to be paid at this time, so the claims come to $470.52 instead of $18,320.00 and he needs a motion to approve claims.
Commissioner Baxter made a motion to approve the claims in the amount of $470.52, 2nd by Commissioner Conner. Motion carried 3-0.
Commissioner Conner made a motion to recess, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.