JUNE 4, 2003
MEMBERS PRESENT:†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Don Williams, President; Phil Baxter, Vice-
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† President; Carl Conner, Secretary; Don
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Ashley, Attorney for the Board;† Karan
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Barnhill, Surveyor and Rod Madden,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Deputy Surveyor.
ALSO PRESENT:†††††††††††††††††††††††††††† ††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Gary E. May, Mark Wilson, Mark Barton,
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† David Blankenberger, Kevin Daugherty and
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Thomas E. Newmaster
President Williams brought the meeting to order.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
President Williams stated that the minutes are not ready to be approved and would be postponed until the next meeting.
President Williams stated that the quote opening for the joint meeting with Spencer was taken care of at the joint meeting and this Board does not have to vote on it.
The quotes were passed to Mr. Don Ashley, Attorney for the Board.
Mr. Ashley stated that the first quote is submitted from
Jerry Aigner Construction on Seitz Ditch on
Warrick Excavating, Inc., for Seitz Ditch on
Mr. Ashley stated the third quote is submitted by DG
Construction for Seitz Ditch on
President Williams asked if there were any questions from the Board and also asked if all who submitted a quote was at the pre-bid meeting?
Karan Barnhill and Rod Madden both answered yes they were.
Commissioner Conner made a motion to award the contract to DG Construction in the amount of $5,700.00, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.
Mr. Ashley opened the first quote and stated that it was
from Jerry Aigner Construction, Inc., for Cypress Creek slips from
The second quote if from DG Construction for Cypress Creek
President Williams asked for questions from the Board?
Commissioner Conner asked if there were only two quotes?
This was answered yes.
Commissioner Baxter asked Karan or Rod if they had an estimate on this project?
Rod answered that he was trying to figure it out in his head, he added that there is approximately 7,100 feet of slips, but he canít do that in his head.
President Williams asked Surveyor Karan and Deputy Surveyor Rod if more time is needed, the Board could take the quotes under advisement until the next meeting.
Karan answered that she would like to do that and Rod also agreed, so we could research to determine if the quotes were reasonable.
Commissioner Conner made a motion to take the bids submitted for Cypress Creek under advisement, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.
Karan stated that the owner of
Mark Barton from Bernardin & Lochmueller introduced himself and stated that he was representing the owner of the lot. He stated that he was here to answer any questions the Board might have for him.
President Williams asked the Board if they had any questions? He also asked for any comments from the public?
Commissioner Conner made a motion to accept the drainage plan as submitted for Lake Haven Estates Lot 8, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.
OAK GROVE SUBDIVISION #3:
Karan stated that this property is adjacent to the existing Oak Grove Subdivision. She further stated this parcel was left out of the original plat and they are taking the original parcel and dividing it into 3 lots, all fronting on an existing street in Oak Grove Subdivision. She added that they have designed a retention basin that is located on the back portion of Lot 169 and this is another case where they are discharging their basin to the corner of the development and they have designed the discharge structure in a ďT so it will discharge in a sheet flow condition when it leaves the site so that it is not draining directly on the adjoining properties. She also stated that it is designed in the 50/5 requirements and she does recommend approval.
Commissioner Baxter made a motion to approve the drainage for Oak Grove Subdivision.
A gentleman came to the podium and introduced himself as
He added that the way the topography is, those 3 lots slope north and east, which would put most of the drainage on the northwest corner of his property, which is already plagued by standing water because the swale runs through there and doesnít flow very well. He added that he hasnít been able to mow that portion of his backyard all spring and itís not uncommon for him to have to wait all season for it to dry out enough to mow.
Karan stated that they are proposing a retention basin on the back portion where he is talking about and they will be catching all of the storm water from the 3 lots and diverting it to the basin and then discharging it from that point out.
Mr. May asked if it would be discharged on the Oak Grove side?
Karan answered that it would be discharging on the north boundary of these lots out of the northeast corner.
Mr. May stated that the lot immediately north of the third lot in this proposal and subsequent lots are already developed; they already have houses on them. He asked if it was planned to cut a drainage ditch back through those back lots and where is that water going to go from the retaining pond?
Karan answered that what they are doing is proposing to discharge it onto their existing property and there will be a bed of riprap and the water will come out of the pipe and it will ďTĒ and out of each end of the ďTĒ it will discharge into a bed of riprap and when it leaves the site it will be in a sheet condition like it is now.
Mr. May asked where was it going to flow, into the swale that already exists in Blue Lake Estates? He added that he thinks that is going to add to his problem.
Karan stated that she did not see Bill Bivins in the room, who is the designing engineer, so she thinks it should be continued so that she can look at it again and also talk to him.
President Williams asked if there was anyone in the audience to represent Oak Grove #3 Subdivision? He added that by policy the Board usually does not act when there is no representation so he would propose to table this matter until the next meeting.
President Williams asked if Commissioner Baxter would rescind his motion?
Commissioner Baxter rescinded his motion.
Commissioner Conner made a motion to table Oak Grove Subdivision #3 until the next regular scheduled meeting.
Karan explained to Mr. May that she would meet with Mr. Bivins at the site and before the next meeting she would contact Mr. May to make sure this did not harm his property in any way, if he would leave his phone number.
Mr. May did so.
President Williams told Mr. May that the next Drainage Board Meeting should be June 25, 2003 or the 4th Wednesday of the month.
Karan stated that she would contact Mr. May and if he was not satisfied, she would work something out.
President Williams stated there is a motion on the floor to table Oak Grove Subdivision #3 by Commissioner Conner, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.
BLUEGRASS RECREATION CENTER:
Karan stated this development was originally approved by the Drainage Board as a recreational center and it did not require any drainage because they are basically leaving the drainage as it is and it was going to existing lakes. She explained that what happened in the course of discussions with Mr. Newmaster and the way that he is going to obtain ownership of all of them, but when they transfer lots into an LLC, which will tie down the leasee to the property, it was decided by the plat review committee the best way to handle it is to go through the platting process, so we are kind of going back and approving something that has already been approved, but to make it official for the plat to be approved they have to have a drainage plan. She added that it is basically approval of a plan with no drainage required.
Commissioner Conner asked if we are doing this because the corporate structure is changing?
Karan answered yes that is the reason.
Commissioner Conner made a motion to accept the drainage plan for the Bluegrass Recreational Center as presented, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.
TEMPORARY CROSSING-EDWARDS DITCH:
Karan stated that she has received letters from Steve Sherwood and Mr. Jim Jesse regarding construction of the State Road 66 project widening from Epworth to 261 and they are going to have to put in a temporary crossing across Edwards Ditch and they have sized a pipe a little larger than the crossing upstream from it. She added that it† just basically needs a temporary crossing to get in and do the S.R. 66 widening.
Mr. David Blankenberger introduced himself, as working with Blankenberger Brothers and that he will be the superintendent of the project. He added that what they are trying to do is on Kenny Ubelhor's property and trying to bring the fill across the road that we will be building. He explained that the State has approved this and they need the Countyís approval.
Commissioner Conner asked how Edwards Ditch was located and would this be parallel to the highway?
Karan answered that it starts at Bell Road where Kenny Ubelhorís development is and runs along Bell and then it takes a turn at S.R. 66 to the West & parallels S.R. 66.
Commissioner Conner made a motion to approve the temporary request for the crossing at Edwards Ditch, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.
FIELD OF DREAMS-DISCUSSION:
Karan explained that Mr. Daugherty contacted her office requesting to be on the agenda and after talking to him she recalls some of the issues that had come up years ago when the original Field of Dreams Subdivision was approved. She stated that basically what has happened is when Field of Dreams was approved there was no drainage required, it was larger lots and in the construction of the subdivision they filled the property next door to Mr. Daugherty and brought the elevation of the land up and in doing so it diverted the water towards him. She stated that this is a large water shed and the water comes from across the street where another Larry Rhodes development crosses under Hunter Road in a large culvert, which she thinks the County upsized when the development was finished. She stated that it goes into a man made lake that was not a required retention basin but the fill was used to build a berm to try to keep the water off of Mr. Daugherty. She explained that Commissioner Baxter and Rod Madden, Deputy Surveyor have also been at the site, Karan stated she had sent Rod and the crew out to shoot elevations in order to try to determine how we could help Mr. Daugherty.
Karan by way of a map explains how the water is draining. She also told of how the force of the water had pushed all of the riprap into Karn Ditch, which has blocked the bottom of the ditch. She stated she needed guidance on how to handle this, as she is not sure how to approach this and suggested she contact the owners of the lake since it is affecting Karn Ditch and see if we can drop the level of this water of the lake by deepening the overflow structure into Karn Ditch. She added that if that doesnít work maybe a defined ditch could be created with the help of the landowners.
Mr. Daugherty stated that he came before the Drainage Board in April 1999 when they were getting ready to develop the property East of him and at that time it was low and when there would be heavy rains (there was not any culvert at that time) it would go west of him and through a defined ditch. He added that since that time they have raised the elevation on the property east of him by at least 4 feet and the County has put a culvert in, but the culvert and so-called retention pond feeds an 18-inch culvert and it backs it up. He stated that it does not do it all of the time just mainly in the spring or when there is a very hard rain. He added that you canít put a 36-inch culvert into an 18-inch culvert and expect the water to go through it.
Mr. Daugherty stated that he had voiced an objection at the time of the beginning of the development and he also stated that he had attended several Drainage Board meetings and told them he didnít care what was built as far as subdivisions as long as they didnít put water over on him. He added that someone came back one time before the development was finished and extended the berm about 20-feet and raised the elevation of an earthen berm that backs the water up and the excess water goes over the berm, but they havenít eliminated anything. He also stated that sometimes the water level is 4-foot higher than his garage. He added that he came back before the Drainage Board and they told him that it was a civil matter and he does not agree because at that time he had voiced an objection and the Drainage Board has given approval of what has happened up to this present time and even though he doesnít have an answer something needs to be done.
President Williams asked Mr. Daugherty where he lived?
Mr. Daugherty answered at 5833 Hunter Road.
President Williams asked Mr. Daugherty if his property line went back to Karn Ditch?
Mr. Daugherty answered that it goes within 20 feet of Carne Ditch. He added that he owns 3 acres deep which is 621 feet or thereabouts.
President Williams asked Mr. Daugherty to approach the Board and show them how far back his property goes on the Drainage plan.
There was much discussion from the Board members.
President Williams stated that what he was wondering that since it is an 18-inch culvert would digging it out even help?
Karan answered it would still choke it down and her problem is that the Drainage Board has no authority and Mr. Ashley will agree. She added that she cannot make them upsize the pipe, but she can do the work in the legal drain.
President Williams stated that he is only about 58 feet from the legal drain and we have a 75-foot easement, so he understands the Board can do something at one place but not at the other one.
Karan stated that she wondered if the Commissioners, because it is flooding Hunter Road would have any authority to see if they could make them upsize the pipe that would have to come from the Highway Department.
Mr. Daugherty stated that before he bought this property he studied it and ran elevations, there was 4-feet of fall between the woods and the County Road because he considered it to be low. He talked to the neighbors and visited the site several times when there were spring rains and there was never any water on the property. He added that since they have built the subdivisions and raised the elevation now it has water.
Commissioner Conner asked if he had 4-feet of water in his garage?
Mr. Daugherty answered no; the water retention pond as they call it gets to be 4-foot higher than the lower level of his garage.
Commissioner Conner apologized and stated that he misunderstood.
Karan stated that if they didnít upsize the pipe there has even been discussion of at the end where the little ditch is notched out to an elevation just right below where the culvert is and letting it drain onto the ditch, but again that is on private property.
Mr. Daugherty stated there is no way you can funnel that volume of water and turn it at an almost 90 degree in the Karn Ditch.
Karan said no, the water would keep draining into the lake.
Commissioner Baxter stated we are talking going straight south.
Karan stated the water would still go into the lake until it gets too full to hold the water and then the excess would then drain down to Karn ditch. She added that it wouldnít be diverting the whole watershed.
Mr. Daugherty stated that this is probably a 3 acre lake and it filled up in one afternoon and this lake is probably 25-30 feet deep so that gives you an idea of how much water goes through there.
Karan stated they were wondering how deep the lake was. She also added that they have only had 2 days to discuss and try to figure out how to remedy the problem.
Commissioner Conner stated that his suggestion would be that they try Karanís recommendation first and if it doesnít work at least there was something done to improve the flow whether or not it accomplishes what we want it to do, then if that doesnít do it weíll try to figure out something else.
President Williams stated that he agrees with Karan that its too far from the legal drain for the Drainage Board to be able to do anything, but since it is flooding Hunter Road, then it is certainly going to be undermining that road to a degree and it is a Highway problem and we may have to get a right-of-entry if this fails to dig a trench.
Karan stated that Rod even had an idea that maybe you could ditch the roadside ditch to make it drain that way. There was much more discussion on this matter with both parties discussing ideas and using the drawing of the map to show different ideas.
Commissioner Baxter stated that the culvert is 24 inches, but right now the spillway is probably a foot higher than the end of the pipe where it goes in, so its restricting it down to half. He added that if it could be lowered 12 inches that would give us a lot of help. But we would have to get permission from the landowners.
The Drainage Board asked Don Ashley if the Board could dig the trench to the lake and lower the lake about a foot?
Mr. Daugherty stated that he could tell you what the lake owners are going to say?
Karan stated that it makes her feel better knowing that the lake is deep.
Mr. Daugherty answered that the lake may have filled in a little bit with top soil and Greg Abshire is the one that lives in the white house. He wanted to know if the ditch with the wood plank bridge to the east of him had a name? He added that Dave Dennis lives there and also Ronnie Williams is one of the neighbors.
Don Ashley stated that they have no jurisdiction outside the 75-feet.
Karan explained what she wanted to do with the riprap that has washed into the ditch and also while pulling it out just put a notch in it.
Mr. Ashley stated they could do that as long as they stay within their repair area.
Commissioner Baxter stated that there were huge concrete chunks that had been washed from the spillway into the ditch, that has to be a lot of force over that spillway.
Mr. Daugherty also told of another lake in the vicinity that is about a 3-4 acre lake that also filled up in less than one day.
Karan stated that Mr. Daugherty was getting watershed from all the way across on the other side of S.R 261.
Commissioner Conner stated that he thinks that what the Surveyor needs to do is what she initially suggested and attempt to take care of that 56-foot, then if that doesnít do it we will have to try something else in a different location, but for now we need to clean this out and put some riprap in the ditch.
Karan stated she needs a little time to talk to the other landowners and she will keep the Board informed of their responses.
President Williams stated on this issue the Surveyor can operate on the Boards consensus.
President Williams asked the Board if they had received copies of the claims and was assured they had.
There was also discussion on the trailer that was purchased; Karan stated that it is used almost daily for brush & debris as we are cleaning ditches by hand. She added that her crew was using Rod Maddenís trailer and she was afraid it would get torn up. She is also trying to find suitable parking for it on the state lot.
President Williams asked about the Willow Pond beaver dam?
Karan answered that it looks good and suggested that they go look at it where the apartments are. Mr. Dimmitt did a good job.
Commissioner Baxter made a motion to pay the claims, 2nd by Commissioner Conner.
Motion carried 3-0.
President Williams asked all members of the Board if they had any other business and stated that the Surveyor, Karan has a report on Mann Ditch.
MANN DITCH-WILLOW POND:
Karan reported that she attended the Newburgh Town Council Meeting on Monday and they basically said they could not do anything because the Utility Commission had not acted on the line crossing Mann Ditch either. She explained they had acted on Willow Pond only and they had a meeting this morning with the Utility Commission, which she also attended and they stated it would be fine as long as the Covenant was revised to not require debris removal. She added that they wanted a line on the bottom of the Covenant that the Town of Newburgh would not be responsible for any debris removal. Karan stated she added the line and sent it to Mae Mason who is supposed to have it signed at their next meeting.
President Williams wanted to know if it was going to be included that Dr. Frudenburg was to be responsible for removal of any debris?
Karan stated she has a signed covenant and she would keep it in the file along with the other covenants.
Commissioner Conner made a motion to adjourn, 2nd by Commissioner Baxter. Motion carried 3-0.