107 W. Locust Street Courthouse

Boonville, Indiana

February 23, 2005

3:00 P.M.



The Warrick County Drainage Board met in regular session with Carl Jay Conner, President; Phillip H. Baxter, Vice-President; Don Williams, Secretary; James E. Niemeyer, Surveyor; Robert A. Wilson, Deputy Surveyor and David A. Zengler, Attorney for the Board.


Cheryl D. Embry recorded the minutes.


President Carl Conner called the meeting to order.




January 26, 2005 @ 3:00 P.M.-Regular Session


Carl Conner: First item on the Agenda is the approval for minutes, I had a question, You had down here January 26, 2005?


Don Williams: Right, those minutes if you recall, last time Phil was here and you were not at that meeting, that’s why.


Carl Conner: That’s okay, is there any questions from the Board in regards to the January 26, 2005 minutes? Hearing none, do I have a motion?


Phil Baxter: I move we approve the minutes from January 26, 2005.


Carl Conner: I have a motion on the floor to approve the minutes of January 26, 2005, do I have a second?


Don Williams: Second


Carl Conner: I have a second, all in favor state by saying Aye.


Phil Baxter: Aye


Don Williams: Aye


Carl Conner: Passes two to zero, show one abstention because I was absent on January 26, 2005.


Don Williams: Mr. President


Carl Conner: Yes sir


Don Williams: I would move that we approve the minutes of February 9, 2005.


Carl Conner: I have a motion on the floor to approve the minutes of February 9, 2005, do I have a second?  Second,  all in favor state by saying Aye.  Aye


Don Williams: Aye


Carl Conner: Passes two to zero, show one abstention please.  (Mr. Baxter did not vote as he was not present on February 9, 2005)




Carl Conner: Orth-Schmitt Project, Jim


Jim Niemeyer: That area was checked this morning and no work has been done.


Don Williams: Has Mr. Schmitt, did you contact him after the last meeting?


Jim Niemeyer:  by letter


Don Williams: Registered letter? What do you think, if I could consult with our attorney.

What do you think, that we need to send him a registered letter to make sure that he gets it?


David Zengler:  Well, that way you know he got it, I don’t think you would necessarily have to send it, its your decision from before, but I guess there is always a question with our mail service whether something got delivered, but its up to the Board.


Don Williams: It has been awfully wet too, so I understand…since December really.


Phil Baxter: I would think that we probably should send a registered letter for our records also.


Don Williams: Did we give him a deadline, Jim?


Jim Niemeyer: Yes, I mentioned in there that we would allow him until the end of the month, February and then that he should be at the next meeting in March.


Don Williams: I would suggest that we send a registered…what is our first meeting in March?


Carl Conner: March 9, 2005


Don Williams: How long do you guys want to give this guy?


Carl Conner: Well, personally based upon what I understand, this is really been an ongoing issue for a long period of time because I recall him being in this room, both of them being in this room back in calendar year 2004. I think that its time we conclude this one way or the other, I think that if you want to send a registered certified letter to him informing him that he has to be here on March 9, 2005, I think we need to do that but also in that letter I think that if we are on solid legal ground, is that we need to spell out what is going to happen if come March 9th he comes in here and cannot report to us that this matter has been resolved and that is the situation, I just think that it has drug on for too long.


David Zengler: We’ve had the hearing, in fact, I had Don put the right words in the minutes before that you found he was at fault, I think that you could put in your letter that the Surveyor has a right to have the work hired done and charge him for it if that is the decision of the Board.


Don Williams: And as far as I’m concerned, if he is not here on that first week in March and its not done we ought to do just that, that’s just an opinion.


Carl Conner: I agree with you, do you want to make a motion or do you have any other questions?


Phil Baxter: I don’t have any questions, just wanted to comment that it has been awfully wet and there are certain things that you can’t do and that area out there is low.


Don Williams: Do you think he needs more time then? You’re in the business.


Phil Baxter: I would agree with Carl that I would like to send the letter saying that we would like him here March 9th to tell us why or when something of that nature.


Don Williams: And the fact that….remind him that if he doesn’t do it then the Surveyor can have it done and he will be charged for it.


Phil Baxter: I would agree with that.


Don Williams: That probably ought to be in the letter. I would move that we do just that. That we have him come before us at the first meeting in March and that we send him a registered letter asking him to be there on March 9, is that what it was?


Carl Conner: yes, I think March 9th is the first meeting, isn’t it sherry?


Don Williams: Also inform him that you have the right to have the work done and that he will be charged with for that by statute. That is my motion.


Carl Conner: I have a motion on the floor that we send a certified-registered letter requesting attendance at the March 9, 2005 meeting and included in that letter will be basically the statement of the  Boards position that if in that point and time the work has not been completed, then the County Surveyor is going to be directed to go out for bids and do the work and then we will submit the cost to him for reimbursement. Do I have a second? I have a second, all in favor state by saying Aye. Passes 3-0.


Carl Conner: Jim, you’ve been out there, do you happen to have any idea, some kind of reasonable estimated cost that it’s going to take to get this matter straightened out?


Jim Niemeyer: Well, I guess, depending somewhat on the ground conditions, but under normal conditions it would probably run about a $1,000.00 give or take. There is only about 2 or 3 hundred foot of strip that needs to be re-mediated


Carl Conner: Okay, moving on to the other issue, Esche Ditch Project.




Jim Niemeyer: Okay, we checked that out last week and drove most of it out, there’s no need to go all the way because you soon run into the slews that are created by the Ohio River cause it is tied to that directly. But, first of all I have some handouts just to kind of give you an idea where it is. What I have highlighted in yellow is Sharon Road and what I have highlighted in Blue in Esche Ditch. There are also photo’s attached to that and they show pretty much depicts what its like all up and down its course. And if you look at the photo’s you will see what it looks like. We did not go the to the very beginning of Esche Ditch because it is just simply a swale. So we started about where it intersects with Jennings.


Robert Wilson: Jefferies


Jim Niemeyer: Jefferies, yeah.


Carl Conner: Now, your going towards Highway 261 then, what is that Jefferies Lane?


Robert Wilson: Jefferies Lane North off of Sharon.


Carl Conner: That runs behind South Broadview, Old South Broadview.


Jim Niemeyer: The very first picture was taken right there at Jefferies Lane.


Robert Wilson: It’s actually the pipe under Jefferies in the picture.


Phil Baxter: Is this a sewer line on the 4th page?


Jim Niemeyer:  Yes, that’s a sanitary sewer, it appears to be, because the cover has been eroded off.


Don Williams: Is that asphalt on that one half? It looks like asphalt.

Robert Wilson: Its solid concrete, it’s just dirty. There are several crossings in this ditch like that.


Jim Niemeyer: There is another one, see the tile exposed, we don’t know whether it’s sanitary or storm.


Don Williams: That black pipe?


Jim Niemeyer: Field tile it looks like.


Robert Wilson: It’s clay


Jim Niemeyer: Red clay


Don Williams: Yeah, I see that one, what about the one right above it?


Jim Niemeyer: That’s concrete around the first one


Phil Baxter: That right behind it is probably a piece of pipe lying there.


Don Williams: I couldn’t see anything that could be attached to it either.


Robert Wilson:  You can find several things like that in the ditch, where pieces had just, I don’t know if they washed there or what.


Don Williams: I have seen ditches in a lot worse shape than this one.


Jim Niemeyer: I suspect that the water, a lot of it has to do with the elevation of the water in the river.


Phil Baxter: I would say it is too.


(There are two different conversations going on- one with Robert showing someone things on the maps and the other conversation with Jim Niemeyer doing the same with a different person, they are both talking at the same time. I will relay what Mr. Niemeyer is saying first.)


Jim Niemeyer: Here’s another picture, this is an aerial that shows the ditch from start to finish and you’ll see the points where the pictures were taken. There is almost 11,000 feet tied into that.


Robert Wilson: This is pretty typical of what it looks like along the Church property, there’s not much but brush in the way, but when you start to get South of the Church property is when you get into that other crossing. These three pictures are all North of Sharon, that is a pipe under Jefferies and that we may or may not want to take in.


Carl Conner: Thank you, Jim.


Don Williams: What is the length again?


Jim Niemeyer: 10,934.2 feet, it took a long time with a hundred foot tape.


Don Williams: Why didn’t you measure it using the GIS system? That would have got you within a foot or two.


Robert Wilson: We did, that’s what we used, we didn’t have a way to measure it on the four-wheeler.


Don Williams: He said he was using a hundred foot tape and I thought he was serious.


Carl Conner: Jim, if we approve this, will this be something that will all be done at one time or is it going to be done in phases?


Jim Niemeyer: I would do it in phases.


Robert Wilson: It would have to be done in phases.


Don Williams: I guess the question would be also and we’ll ask the attorney on this, but a part of ditch obviously there are houses that would, if we would try and make it a legal drain we would have to make a portion of it an urban drain and then on this very first picture, it looks to me like that house is well within 30-feet.


Robert Wilson: The further North you get the more things are in the way, once you get down past the first 1000-1500-feet of it then the yards are more open and you could actually do a little something depending on the homeowners corporation, but there was actually room. But, there are utilities in the way, telephone boxes and things like that, that are along that backyard area that we would only consider if we could even do a lot North of Sharon Road.


Jim Niemeyer: We’ll have to do some field-work to check it out pretty close.


Don Williams: Yeah, before we go with a legal drain we need to look and see exactly what we need to do, cause that’s quite an infringement on the property owner.


Jim Niemeyer: We have everything ready to mail out and we could see, well, we’ll just have to determine how much we need to or want to monitor.


Robert Wilson: Well, the worst of what we saw is South of Sharon Road, basically along the Church property, it was very meandered, a lot of trees with roots exposed and that’s going to deteriorate over time probably the worst of what we saw.



Don Williams: The good thing there is that there is access on both sides of the ditch though.


Robert Wilson: Right, it could be worked on, right in that area you could get on both sides.


Jim Niemeyer: Some places you won’t.


Carl Conner: Just looking at this map that you’ve given us, just initially, it does not look to me that we are going to have many if any obstacles relative to private ownership of property because of residential development, I mean, you get down here, I mean, if this map is……


Don Williams: Really from Sharon Road on I think your right, there’s not much there.


Carl Conner: Yeah, the problem appears to me, Don, is going to be North of Sharon Road where you get into Jefferies Lane behind the old original South Broadview.


Robert Wilson: That finger off of Jefferies before it turns South is very close to the two homes there you would have trouble doing anything in there and not being up into the foundation of the homes.


Carl Conner: Well, what is the next step Jim, in the process here?


Jim Niemeyer: I would say to make a more detailed inspection of it and have a look at the obstructions.


Robert Wilson: Really we need the utilities located so we know what’s there, especially North of Sharon.


Carl Conner: So, if we were going to do this in phases have you given any thought to how you would break this up, for example, like from Sharon North to Jefferies be one phase or...


Robert Wilson: You could probably…you definitely wouldn’t want to do that in conjunction with anything else because its going to be such a different project North of Sharon, and like one of you had mentioned an urban drain. If we choose to take that section on it will probably have to be utilized.


Jim Niemeyer: We’ll have to determine that.


Carl Conner: Then what would be phase II?


Robert Wilson: Probably all along the Church property, you could feasibly go all the way to 66 but that is a pretty long stretch and financially we may not be able to do all that in one bite. But as far as the scope of the project it would be pretty much the thing.


Carl Conner: So, are you talking about….how far South of Sharon Road?

Robert Wilson:  Well, from Sharon Road all the way to the church, the church owns like 17 or 14 acres, they own a pretty good strip of the ditch, they own all the way to Sharon.


Jim Niemeyer: From Sharon down to the Ferstel Road area.


Don Williams: Its almost like that little triangle there, isn’t it?


Robert Wilson: Right, the church probably owns from Sharon to where the next ditch comes in to Esche, pretty much that length.


Carl Conner: So, your just about down to Ferstel Road then?


Jim Niemeyer: Yeah


Robert Wilson: Yeah, close to where Ferstel would be if it crossed over.


Carl Conner: So, there at the, that looks like a “Y” that would be Phase II to Sharon Road or would you go all the way to Ferstel Road and make that Phase II?


Robert Wilson:  I would go like you said from Sharon Road to where the “Y” is, that would be probably II, cause I think financially you would have to break it up, you couldn’t do all the way to 66 in one swing.


Carl Conner: Then from the “Y” how far South?


Robert Wilson: Probably to 66, from the “Y” South the ditch changes quite a bit, it opens up and its not near as eroded, its quite meandered, but its not really as obstructed as far as erosion occurring and the banks being almost straight up and down.


Carl Conner: Okay, then from State Road 66…..


Robert Wilson: Yeah, from 66 South it was more like a creek than it was a ditch, it was really deep.


Jim Niemeyer: I don’t think you need to go into that.


Robert Wilson: You probably wouldn’t need to do a lot down there.


Don Williams: Everything from where the red tag is here, see from here on, that is all marshy area and it drains automatically, so it don’t quite go all the way to 66.


Carl Conner: So, basically then the rest of this that you have highlighted would be Phase IV?


Robert Wilson: Correct and I was under the understanding that we have to take, if we do this, we have to take from those marshy areas North to be contiguous with the river, otherwise, we’d have an island of ditch and we can’t do that, is that correct?


David Zengler: That’s correct


Robert Wilson: Because really the 4th phase probably needs the lease amount of work.


Carl Conner: Okay, so what Phase …are you going to go back and go out and do utility locates and survey work just in the first phase or the entire…


Jim Niemeyer: I’d do the first half.


Robert Wilson:  The first two.


Carl Conner: Okay, so your looking at Phase 1 and Phase II?


Jim Niemeyer: Yeah


Robert Wilson: That’s where the most of the utilities are and if we get them all located then we come up with a scope of work and that would cover probably two projects.


Carl Conner:  And a part of that project would be contacting land owners also?


Jim Niemeyer: Yeah


Robert Wilson: That’s the top of bank isn’t it?


Don Williams: Yeah, they’ve got a lot of work to do yet, they’ve got to go out and do some more reconnoitering.


Jim Niemeyer: I think one thing we need to do is, one of the impediments to the failure last time was people were afraid that we would get in their yard and tear it all up and that it wouldn’t be put back. That would be a part of the contracts specs, that would have to be put in there, we would have to put in there to make sure that everything gets restored.


Carl Conner: Your initial work here, does it need to be done prior to us having you contact and us setting a Public Meeting in regards to making this a Legal Drain, or should we go ahead and ask for a motion and see if we get approval of that to direct you to go ahead and do this work for purposes of holding a Public Meeting to hear input relative to making this entire thing a legal drain?


Jim Niemeyer: I think what we should do is go do our homework, go to the field and check all the obstructions, cause its not like out in the country.


Carl Conner:  Okay and utility locates.

Robert Wilson: Right, the utilities would be the..…there’s not that may obstructions up North of Sharon, its where the utilities actually lie will be a big determining factor of what we can do.


Carl Conner: And then after that’s done, then the next phase would be us to actually contact and hold a Public Hearing. Is there any other questions?


Don Williams: I don’t have any.


Carl Conner: I assume that…do we need to put that in the form of a motion directing them or just a consensus for them to do it?


David Zengler: I think just a consensus for them to go check.


Carl Conner: Okay, I guess you have the consensus of the Board to go ahead and pursue that.  Okay, thanks Jim. Claims




Carl Conner: Is this dollar amount correct $549.25?


Cheryl D. Embry: Yes


Carl Conner: Is there any questions from the Board in regards to February’s claims?


Don Williams: I have none.


Phil Baxter: I have none.


Carl Conner:  Hearing none, do we have a motion to approve?


Don Williams: Mr. President, I would move that we pay February claims of $549.25.


Carl Conner: Have a motion on the floor to pay claims in the amount of $549.25, do I have a second?


Phil Baxter: Second.


Carl Conner: All in favor state by saying Aye. Aye


Don Williams: Aye


Phil Baxter: Aye


Carl Conner: Passes three to zero. Jim do you have any other business to come before the Board?

Jim Niemeyer: Well, I just wanted to mention that we’re beginning to initiate a maintenance program for the drainage ways and one of the first ones will probably be on Pigeon Creek and we want to get enough work together so we can begin to get contracts out and we’ll just carry out throughout the season.


Carl Conner: Okay, Dave, do you have anything?


David Zengler:  No


Carl Conner: Don?


Don Williams: I have nothing.


Carl Conner: Phil?


Phil Baxter: No


Carl Conner:  I have nothing, therefore I would look for a motion to adjourn.


Don Williams: So moved.


Carl Conner: Have a motion on the floor to adjourn, do I have a second?


Phil Baxter: Second


Carl Conner: Have a second, all in favor state by saying Aye. Aye


Don Williams: Aye


Phil Baxter: Aye.


Carl Conner: Passes three to zero, we are adjourned.