107 W. Locust Suite 301

Boonville, IN 47601


January 25, 2006

3:00 P.M.



The Warrick County Drainage Board met in regular session with President Don Williams presiding, also in attendance were Phillip H. Baxter, Vice-President; Carl Jay Conner,

Secretary; James E. Niemeyer, Surveyor and David K. Zengler, Attorney for Board. Also present was Sean M. Owen, Deputy Surveyor.


Minutes were recorded and transcribed by Cheryl D. Embry.


Sherri Rector was in the audience.




President Don Williams brought the meeting to order and stated the approval of minutes was the first order of business and asked for a motion.


Carl Conner stated that he was not present at the last meeting.


Phil Baxter: I move we approve the minutes from January 11, 2006.


Don Williams:Second that motion.


Motion was passed with two ayes and 1 abstention from Mr. Conner.




Jim Niemeyer:I would like for Sean to take care of this as he has been talking to the residents.


Sean Owen:I gave each member a printout of aerial photography and the parcels, right there at the end of that cul-de-sac, there are three parcels. We have received an amended plat for consolidations of those three parcels there in Lakevale Estates Section D. At the top of that parcel, Iím not sure which one it is, here is the amended plat, they are trying to consolidate these three lots. This person owns all three lots, there is actually supposed to be a retention pond in between these two here and itís even showed here, itís a private drainage easement for a detention pond. Iíve been out there, I havenít been able to investigate it in depth, but I believe that it was not constructed, as least properly. There is a pipe out there, but there is no real definition to a retention pond as you can see from the aerial photography, itís all wooded, thereís no banks, nothing like that, it just looks like a natural depression and the property has a pipe coming out of it. This lady over here (showing on the photography) she lives in Old Stone House, sheís got the pool there in her back yard, she is the one that has been complaining for awhile about excess drainage in her backyard saying that all this property in thru here is real saturated, theyíve had a lot of trees that have fallen in both of these yards. We just were not sure if there is anything that we can do to force them to fix that. I know the developer has gone bankrupt.


Carl Conner:Who was the developer?


Sean Owen:I canít remember, Sherri Rector told me but I have forgotten his name.

I know that Andy Easley has been the one that has surveyed this and has done the consolidation of these three lots and really donít have a problem with the three lots being consolidated. What the property owner is trying to do isÖ.I guess they get accessed for lake maintenance from the Property Owners Association for each lot that they own, so they are trying to get out of paying for three and just pay for one. But, we wanted to get the Boardís idea and get Mr. Zenglerís idea of what our responsibilities and powers are in that situation.


Don Williams:Well, to consolidate those lots, it has to come before the Board of Commissioners, does it not, to consolidate them, soÖ.


Sean Owen:I didnít know if we could hold that up beings that they havenítÖthe retention pond hasnít been put in yet or if we could go ahead and let them do that and we can still haveÖ.you know still pursue it somewhat or do I need to call that lady and let her know that it is a civil matter and that she needs to pursue it that way.


Carl Conner:Sheís wanting to put in the retention pond herself?


Sean Owen:No, sheís wanting them to take care of it.


Carl Conner:Who to take care of it?


Sean Owen:The owners of those two lots.


Carl Conner:Okay, can we force the owner of that lot to build a retention pond?

It was probably part of the drainage and the contractors broke.


Don Williams:Yeah, this is way back before our time, but I thinkÖ.it almost looks like there might have been one to me, I can see that outline, but maybe Iím wrong.


Phil Baxter: Is there a date on here when this was done? Evidently, if itís grown over or whatever, itís been several years.


David K. Zengler:To answer Carlís question, I donít know if you could really force them to put in one now, I think the owner would have a responsibility to maintain it, especially if you donít have a developer left.


Sean Owen:And thatís the way it was deeded was that the owner maintain it, but I guess how far can we force them to maintain.


Don Williams:I donít know that this Board has any legal responsibility here, itís not a legal drain not is it changing any natural drainage and itís not hindering any natural drainage, so I donít think we have a dog in this fight, thatís just my thought.


Carl Conner:I agree with you, I think itís probably a civil matter and my suggestion would be that you just contact her and based upon the legal opinion of the Drainage Board, it is a civil matter and weíre sorry but it is an issue that she is going to have to deal with.


Don Williams:I think the Board of Commissioners, if he does petition to consolidate those three lots, they could broach that subject and say hey you need to do that, but I donít know that even the Board of Commissions would have a hammer to make him do that.


Carl Conner: I donít know how.


Don Williams:I donít know either, I mean we can broach the subject and say, look.


Carl Conner: But, I would suggest that you do not suggest to her that itís possible that the Board of Commissioners could, just see what she proceeds with.


Sean Owen:Okay, Iíll inform that lady and Iíll also tell Sherri kind of what we have said.


Don Williams:The next discussion item is Allen Ditch Proposals.




Jim Niemeyer: The last couple of days I received the second quote for repairing the ditch and I guess I should back up a little bit and say why I went to the outside to get a proposal to engineer that ditch. One of them is that I donít have the background and number two is Bobby Howard has his hands full also and I think I understood him to say correctly that he didnít have the background for it as it involves hydraulics and hydrology as well. This is a very public problem as even the City of Newburgh has been there to discuss the problem and the various agencies donít want us to make a mistake because it is a very dangerous situation primarily because the BP pipeline sits upon the hill behind a concrete retaining wall. Had we been able to start on it when we first learned of it, I think we would have been all right, but it took about 3 months to get a permit and I finally got the one from the Corp of Engineers today and they advised me not to start until I received it. Well, all during that period the problem became steadily worse and to the point where the erosion is starting to remove a hill. The ditch is advancing in a northerly direction in a rather rapid rate, so I gave each one of you a copy of the proposals for you to look at and review and my thing is I think the sooner we start on it, we are able to start on it the better because it is not going to do anything but get worse and we have a limited time there because there is no vegetation on the trees so that would hinder us for doing the survey work thatís required. We also have quite a ......we have 60 truckloads of concrete that we can use to fill that plus another 25 or 30 that we can receive from the County to provide additional fill.


Carl Conner:I tell you thatísÖ..I donít know if the other two Board members have been out there or not, but Iíve been out there a couple of times and it just continues to erode. I mean, itís justÖ..but it has to be fixed and itís just like a gaping hole just swallowing the earth.


Jim Niemeyer:About the quotes, the one from Morley is an estimate and they advised me that they would try to hold the line at that amount, but at the same time it could also be ten to twenty thousand dollars more.


Don Williams:For the surveying and engineering?


Jim Niemeyer:Right, depending on how things went and they also said that it could be less. BLA has a firm price of $40,000.00.


Don Williams:Have you looked at it, Phil?


Phil Baxter: These proposals?


Don Williams:No, the ditch.


Phil Baxter: Yes Iíve been out there 2 or 3 times. In fact, Jack and I talked about it today and Iím really not sure what these Engineers propose to do. Of course, we just got these a few minutes ago.


Jim Niemeyer:They are going to design, do all the design work for the retention of the soil and Iím not sure whether there are going to be structures installed or not at this point.


Don Williams: When is that new excavator coming online that we just bought?


Phil Baxter:About 4 to 5 weeks.


Carl Conner: Timely, are you thinking of doing it in-house, Don, the construction part?


Don Williams:Yes, thatís my thoughts, cause to me whatís required there on Allen Ditch isnít near as sophisticated as to what we had to do out on the Yankeetown Road when it caved it. There may have to be some gabions that have to be put in, Iím not sure what would have to be put in there cause I really havenít even looked at it, Jim and I were supposed to do it and I canít remember, I think I had a family health issue that came up with my parents and I had to cancel out on him, but I still want to go out there and look at that, the sooner the better. Maybe we can do that Friday, weíll try it again or next Monday. I do want to go out there and look at it with one of you.


Carl Conner:I know one thing for sure we canít allow it to continue, to go on much longer because itís just continually taking more and more of that ditch.


Sean Owen:I think since the first time we looked at it in September until the beginning of January when we went back and looked at it again, itís probably tripled in size.


Carl Conner: The last time I was out there a couple of weeks ago and I know itís bad. Iím assuming for it to be, even though I hate to spend the money on engineering, I wish we would just throw some rock and dirt in there, but apparently we canít do that, we have to fix it properly.


Sean Owen:We had received an e-mail from Jason from IDEM and he said that one of the head cuts where the actual flow-line of the ditch that cuts off and drops down about 4-5 feet, he said that itís one of the worst that he has ever seen. They had to do a public notice for our emergency permit and the said that there were a lot of people that got back with him and said that it the worst they have ever seen and that it would take some type of special structure in order to prevent that from happening.


Don Williams:To fill in that hole, right?


Carl Conner: And are we at danger with the shifting of that gas line?


Jim Niemeyer: Yes, if we donít do it. The retaining wall stands up almost vertical but there is also an apron that comes out from the bottom of it and the apron is being undercut by the current, so itís just hanging there and if that wall were to slide, that 1400 pounds of 8-inch line with xylene in it is not anything you want to fool with.


Don Williams:How deep is that, Jim? The ditch there?


Jim Niemeyer:Oh, I bet its 15-foot deep or more.


Carl Conner: So we do then need to have professional engineers to actuallyÖÖ.


Jim Niemeyer: Yes and British Petroleum will be there at our side all the while weíre working at it.


Phil Baxter:If I read this right, $40,500.00 is the low bidder?


Carl Conner: Yes


Don Williams:I mean if weíve got to have professionals to engineer it, if itís that bad, whatever you gentlemen think, I mean I wouldnít oppose that, but it seems to me thatís an awful lot of engineering fee, butÖ..


Carl Conner: I guess we can go out and get some additional bids.


Jim Niemeyer: Well, Steve had advised me that there werenít many engineering firms around that would be capable of tackling that job and Iím just going by his work.


Don Williams:Are you talking about Mr. Sherwood?


Jim Niemeyer:Yes


Don Williams:Well, since heís no longer with the County does he have any interest in doing the engineering and surveying?


Jim Niemeyer:Donít know, I can ask him.


Don Williams:It might be interesting to see if he could handle that, he may not have the time on a part time basis.


Carl Conner: And his firm may not have the experience either.


Don Williams:Iím not talking about his firm, Iím talking about his personal business.


Phil Baxter:I would be willing to make a motion.


Don Williams:Go ahead, weíre open for that, its discussion but we can handle that any way you gentlemen want to.


Phil Baxter:Iíd move that we award the engineering for Allen Ditch to BLA for $40,500.00 because I really think we need to go with it.


Carl Conner:Well we know one thing; itís got to be done.


Don Williams:We all agree there.


Carl Conner: Iíll second Philís motion.


Don Williams:Motion made and seconded to have BLA do the engineering and survey work for Allen Ditch, all in favor say aye.


All members voted aye, motion carried 3-0.


Carl Conner: My next question would be, does their contract need legal review?


David K. Zengler: Since I was just handed the contract, I would like to review it, give me a day or two.


Don Williams:Do we need to back up maybe and make that selection contingent on your approval of the contract.


David K. Zengler:I guess you can select, I just have to approve the contract.


Carl Conner: So if we donít hear from you, we know that it meets with your approval, then right?


David K. Zengler:I will talk with Jim, that would probably be the simplest way, Iíll talk with Jim after Iíve looked at it.


Don Williams:Jim, you can e-mail us or give us a call and let us know personally.


Jim Niemeyer:Okay


Don Williams:Do you have any other business?




Jim Niemeyer:I have one more small problem and that is to get everybody together for an MS4 meeting date, which I have tentatively scheduled for February 2nd at 1:30 p.m.


Don Williams:What is that, that is a Wednesday?


Jim Niemeyer: I think itís a Tuesday.


Phil Baxter: No, itís a Thursday.


Don Williams:Okay, now this meeting will have to be advertised because it will have to be an open public meeting.


Jim Niemeyer: Not just to review it with yourÖwell, I was just going to haveÖ


Don Williams:We need to check with our attorney on that.


Jim Niemeyer: I was just going to ask Commonwealth to just review it for your benefit.


Don Williams:Now is this Drainage Board or is it the Board of Commissioners?


Jim Niemeyer: It would be Drainage Board.


David K. Zengler:I think it would need to be published, I think if the three of youÖ.


Don Williams:It might have to be published and an open meeting.


David K. Zengler:Not that thatís a big problem.


Phil Baxter: Itís next Thursday?


Jim Niemeyer:Well, you wonít make it by that time.


Don Williams:What do you mean it wonít make it?


Jim Niemeyer:Is that sufficient time?


Don Williams:What 48 hour notice, 24 hour notice. 48 for sure, Sherri, do you know?


Sherri Rector:its 48 hours.


Don Williams:48, so thereís plenty of time, if you get the ad in the standard, well today is WednesdayÖÖ


Sherri Rector:I think you can just call a special meeting and post it 48 hours on the doors.


Don Williams:Thatís all you have to do, just put a notice on the door, so, Cheryl, I guess youíll be doing that so go ahead and get it done and get it up by Friday and it would be up for 4 working days. On the MS4 and this probably isnít the forum to talk that, but Iíll probably forget about it, but all the members of this Board needs to probably and everybody has a copy, but if youíre like mine, itís probably buried somewhere of the proposed drainage management that we had BLA do. No, it wasnít it was our attorney, Doug, the proposed drainage authority, I canít remember what itís called.


Phil Baxter:Was it just this past year, it seems a hundred years ago.


Don Williams:Yes, it does, but I think it was just this past year, but we need to be reading through that because we are going to have to do that sooner or later too and once we have this meeting, weíll know more I guess. Can you all make that on February 2nd thatís next Wednesday?


Carl Conner:No, thatís next Thursday and I will not be here next Thursday or Friday.


Phil Baxter: Iím not sure, Don whether I can or not, Iíll have to check and see. Put it down if I can make itÖ.


Don Williams:Iím the point man, what am I?


Jim Niemeyer:Youíre the license holder.


Don Williams:†† The License holder and youíre the operator. And youíve got Mr. Larson coming down?


Jim Niemeyer:Yes


Phil Baxter:Cheryl, would you give me a call Wednesday afternoon, please.


Don Williams:If you canít make it, do you want us to go ahead and have it, weíll make notes for Mr. Conner. Weíll hold the meeting in this room and that way we can record it. Iíll tell you what weíll just copy the cassette for Commissioner Conner and that way he can listen to it at his whim. Would that be appropriate?


Phil Baxter:How long will this take, Jim?


Jim Niemeyer:It will probably take two hours, longer if there are a lot of questions.


David K. Zengler:Iíll try to come, but I think I have court scheduled, Iíll have to leave at some point and time.


Jim Niemeyer: Well, I mean we can put it down on another day.


Don Williams:I would much rather it have been the following week. Could you make it the following week?


Carl Conner: Iíll have to look at my calendar.


Phil Baxter: That would be the 11th?


Jim Niemeyer:Well, the second Wednesday is on the 8th of February.


Don Williams:Thatís on a meeting day, we still probably need to do it on a Tuesday or Thursday and I think we probably need to have a special meeting.


Jim Niemeyer: Probably on Thursday, thatís a good day.


Carl Conner: So youíre looking at Thursday the 9th?


Don Williams:I would rather it be on a Tuesday if Mr. Larson can make it.


Jim Niemeyer: We have Area Plan Meetings all day on Tuesday.


Don Williams:Okay, then make it for that Thursday the 9th, same time ok for everybody?


Carl Conner: Okay, February 9th at what time?


Don Williams:1:30 P.M.


Carl Conner: Iím just going to put that on my calendar and if I donít hear otherwise Iíll be there.


Don Williams:Call Don Larson and see if we can get that date.




Don Williams:We have claims in the amount of $390.07.


Carl Conner:I move that we approve the claims.


Don Williams:Iíll second that, all in favor.


All members voted aye, motion passed 3-0 for claims in the amount of $390.07.


Don asked the Board members if there was any other business to come before the meeting, there being none he asked for a motion to adjourn. Phil Baxter made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Carl Conner. Motion passed 3-0. Meeting was adjourned.