JULY 26, 2006
COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM
The Warrick County Drainage Board met in regular session with President Don Williams presiding, also in attendance were Phillip H. Baxter, Vice President; Carl Jay Conner, Secretary; Jim Niemeyer, Surveyor and David K. Zengler, Attorney for Board.
Also in attendance was Sean M. Owen, Deputy Surveyor.
Audience attendance was Kimberly L. Behringer, Ruth Lenko and Joseph Lenko, Steve Kissel, Leon Corressell and Jerry Terhune.
Phil Baxter:† I move that we approve the minutes for July 12, 2006.
Carl Conner:† Second
Don Williams:† Motion made and second all in favor state by saying aye.
All members voted aye, motion was passed 3-0.
Don Williams:† Fence request, Stonegate. Mr. Behringer?
Kimberly Behringer:† Iím Mrs. Behringer.
Don Williams:† Mrs. Behringer, would you please state your name and your address for the record, please.
Mrs. Behringer: †My name is Kimberly Behringer, I reside at
4344 Stonegarden lane in
Don Williams;† Go ahead and state your business and when she is finished, if you would Mr. Surveyor, to ahead and make any comments that you might have.
Mrs. Behringer:† The purpose for my visit today is, we are erecting a fence within the perimeter of our property on Stonegarden. If you are at the back of our propertyÖÖ
Don Williams pointed out on pictures and asked if this is where she was located and she answered that yes it was.
Mrs. Behringer:† What we wanted to do was, at our neighbors fence to the right, the brown fence that runs with our property. What we wanted to do was put a post there to be able to erect a 6-foot vinyl fence on the corner where his fence is. What we want to do is we want to put a post there (pointed on pictures)† and have two 5-foot gates coming across and then meeting up with our house. We are going to have to come off the back of our house per the by-laws and everything that has to do with Fieldstone Subdivision, where we live, so we have to go by their regulations to the fashion as to how we erect the fence. We have to come off the back piece of our house, which isÖ.the back of our house is a little closer to the street so we are going to put a approximately a 5-foot piece front and back and then weíre going to post it and put the two 5-foot gates coming across and weíre going to hook into our neighbors fence by putting a post there on the corner of where his fence starts there in the front. There is a six-foot easement on that side, so with that being said, so in order to be able to erect the fence, we have to get permission to put the post there on the corner in the front so we can hook our gates to his fence and then on the back part of the property there is four different green electrical cable telephone boxes in the back. Then on the back corner on the same line we wanted to put another post there and run a fence parallel with the 6-foot easement that we also have across the back of our property and then come up on the other side to fence in our yard.
Don Williams:† Jim, I am not sure why sheís here since this is the Drainage Board, so if you could explain that. This isnít a legal drain.
Jim Niemeyer:† Iíll defer this to Sean.
Sean Owen:† Itís not a legal drain, but the Area Plan Commission request permission from the Drainage Board, because she is crossing this Drainage Easement.
Don Williams:† We have no authority over this area.
Sean Owen:† †Thatís what they have always asked isÖ.
Don Williams:† Correct me if Iím wrong, Mr. Attorney.
David K. Zengler:† Well, in the past since I have been your attorney, they have come here and asked that when there is subdivision drainage easements, that you either approve or disapprove erection of obstacles in those.
Carl Conner:†† I think the big concern is the impediment of water.
Don Williams:† Right, will your fence be off the ground or will it be flat like the others?
Mrs. Behringer:† No, where our gates are going to be, they are going to be on a wheel system. Itís going to be vinyl fencing and the two 5-foot gates are going to be on a wheel, so they just slide, you know with the motion of the wheel to the front and then across the back of the easement across our property which is approximatelyÖaccording to this its about 100 wide across the back and thatís where the other 6-foot easement is, where the water comes through on the back part of our property and we are going to run a fence within our yard parallel with the drainage area back there and then come across behind our shed and then up to our house. Basically, I explained it today when you came and took the photos.
Sean Owen:† Her fence in the back where the main drainage easement is, her fence is going to be outside of it. Well outside of where the drainage area is. The only thing that she would need permission from the Board would be, there is a 6-foot drainage easement running in between her neighbor and her house and sheísÖÖ just where that post is going to be where the gates connect and then also in the back just for that 6-feet span sheís going to go across where that is, is not going to be, I believe impeding any water.
Carl Conner:† But in fact the fence is going to go across the drainage portion there, right?
Even though you are saying that itís not going to be an impediment to the drainage, it is going to go across the drainage right of way.
Sean Owen:† Yes.
Don Williams:† As long as he doesnít impede the water, I donít really have a problem as long as you donít construeÖÖif we should approve this of us giving you any type of authority to hook onto your neighbors fence, thatís between you and your neighbor.
Mrs. Behringer:† Right, Weíve already discussed that with our neighbor. He has no problem with us putting our vinyl posts next to his on the corners, on both corners. Thatís all thatís combining them we have to start somewhere as far as hooking the vinyl fence. We donít want to hook our vinyl fence on his wooden fence, so weíre just going to post it next to his. But we have to go from the back of our house in accordance with Fieldstone Subdivisionís by-laws and rules and regulations also. But I was told I would need to come here first and have all the utilities notified. Everyone is pretty much marked. The gentleman there on the end who took all the pictures and he saw where everybody marked all their lines so we donít put a post down in any areas where they shouldnít be.
Don Williams:† Like a gas or a water line.
Mrs. Behringer:† Right, I think thereís red for electric, orange for cable, yellow for gas, soÖÖ.
Don Williams:† Does the Board have any questions? Anyone else have any comment on this particular issue? What is the will of the Board?
Carl Conner:† I would make a motion that we grant the request as long as we can be assured and I assume the County Surveyors Office is assuring us that the fence will not create any impediment in the drainage.
Phil Baxter:† Second
Motion was made and seconded. All Board members voted aye. Motion passes 3-0.
Don Williams:† Mrs. Behringer, your request has been approved.
Mrs. Behringer thanked the Board and asked if there was anything else she needed to do before she left. She asked if she would receive anything in the mail relating to this.
Sean Owen:† We will send a form to Sherri Rector in the Area Plan Commission and she will take it from there.
Don Williams:† Okay, gentlemen the next item on the agenda are the claims, if you look at the claims, we have total claims in the amount of $50,142.72. I would like to make a comment. There are several charges on there on Allen Ditch which is now complete and I went out there with the Surveyor yesterday and looked at the work that Mr. Bigge did out there and itís an excellent job. It should take care of that forever hopefully.
Jim Niemeyer:† I have to say, I added up the number of tons we used it was 8,000 tons almost 9,000 tons of broken concrete and riprap to fix it.
Don Williams:† Well, that serves several thousand people, so thatís good. Any other questions as far as the claims go? Iíll entertain a motion.
Carl Conner:† I would move that we approve the claims in the amount of $50,142.72.
Phil Baxter:† Second
Motion was made and seconded, all members voted aye. Motion passed 3-0.
Carl Conner:† Jim at next months meeting, is there any way that you can just give us a total of what we still have left in the Cumulative Drain account that would be available for use yet this year?
Jim Niemeyer:† Sure, Iíll do that.
Don Williams:† Is there any other business to come before this Board? Come up and state your name, residence, your address and what your petition might be.
Steve Kissel:† My
name is Steve Kissel, I live at
Don Williams: Is it a legal drain, Sir?
Jim Niemeyer:† Itís in Colonial Hills Subdivision and the area that he is talking about butts up to a legal drain, Howard-Williams Ditch.
Steve Kissel:† †On the other side of
Carl Conner: Could we just keep them? Do you have copies?
Don Williams:† Anything submitted to the Board by law we are required to keep for the record, are we not? We have no always done that though.
Carl Conner:† The reason I asked is because those pictures probably need to be filed in the Surveyorís Office in a file for purposes of us following up on your issues.
Steve Kissel:† My son told me if you wanted a copy of them I need to take them out of the package as he wanted the package back.
Carl Conner: Just forget it, donít worry about it.
The gentleman (Mr. Kissel) was off the microphone and his next statements were not audible.
Don Williams:† So weíre talking about a natural drainage not a legal drain?
Jim Niemeyer:† Well, it runs into a legal drain.
Don Williams:† I donít care, the question is, is it part of the legal drain or is it a natural drain that he is talking about?
Jim Niemeyer:† Itís not part of the legal drain.
Don Williams:† I mean we have natural drains going into legal drains all over the County.
Jim Niemeyer:† Thatís exactly what this is.
Carl Conner: And this water is in your house? This is your sonís house?
Steve Kissel:† Yes. It is almost a foot deep maybe a little deeper.
Carl Conner:† And this was August 25, 2005?
Steve Kissel:† Yes, 2005 and the last one was 7-12 06.
Don Williams:† That also flooded the interior of your home, Sir?
Steve Kissel:† Yes
Carl Conner:† I think what weíre looking at here, unless Iím wrong, is this is just an isolated incident that is part of a major problem.
Steve Kissel:† No, my neighbor down the road from us gets water in his house too.
Carl Conner: Thatís what Iím saying is that we have a major problem in that area this is just one of the results of it.
Steve Kissel:† Okay, I misunderstood what you said.
Carl Conner:† Iím just going on information that Iíve received and the times that Iíve been out there cause you live in the old Colonial Hills, donít you?
Steve Kissel:† Yes, something needs to be done because we canít afford to keep having to replace things because of water getting into the house.
Don Williams:† Do you have a committee association or there or any kind of covenants or anything in that subdivision?
Steve Kissel:† They tried to get one started and nobody else would go with it.
Carl Conner:† So you donít have a Home Owners Association?
Steve Kissel:† No, not to my knowledge. That is the ditch that is in question on the flip side of that, that is the growth that is inside of the ditch that is supposed to be draining.
Carl Conner:† Jim, do we know whether or not most of that water is draining from another source? And I guess my question is this, because they are adjacent to SterchiÖ
Jim Niemeyer: That water runs from there, it goesÖ.. there is a drain along Epworth and it drops into that and thenÖ.
Steve Kissel:† Excuse me, there are like three other subdivisions that drain into this ditch.
Jim Niemeyer:† Even Kenosha Hills across the street that runs in there and it really canít take it and I have been out there on numerous occasions after it rains and the water really does come in there with force.
Carl Conner:† So is the water coming from the new Sterchi Subdivision?
Jim Niemeyer:† Yes
And then itís also draining downhill there from
Jim Niemeyer:† The last rain there was muddy water in your house and thatís where itís coming from.
Don Williams:† And cleaning the ditches hasnít helped that situation.
Jim Niemeyer: We havenít got that far, that is on our last leg to do that and we need to go from the West where the Howard-Williams Ditch enters fromÖyou knowÖ it goes from I-165 North but we need to clean the section that goes from this area here, all the way past the storage facility there and right where it goes in under I-164, thatís at Deaconess.
Carl Conner: We havenít been able to do there at the storage as of yet.
Jim Niemeyer:† No, that is one thing I had in my estimate to do yet this year is to clean that out and I had an estimate of $14,000.00.
Carl Conner:† How far north would we be going if we cleaned the ditch out there at the storage facility?
Jim Niemeyer:† Itís less than a mile, I think.
So, does that then take into consideration the area thatís draining from
Jim Niemeyer:† Yeah, thatís right on the County line.
Carl Conner:† What does that area look like? Have you looked at that area lately?
Jim Niemeyer:† The ditch out there has quite a bit of silt in it, itís about a foot and half deep cause we probed it you know and the stick will just slide right to refusal. Then some grinding needs to be done there on the east side of† I-164 prior to reaching Colonial Hills.
Don Williams:† Yeah,
we had discussed, the previous surveyor, at one time the possibility of
extending Howard-Williams all the way down to the
Carl Conner:† Do we have any?
David K. Zengler:† †I think you do, before I give you a yes or no I would like to look that up. I would like to look that up, but I would think that you probably do.
Don Williams:† Would you research that for us. Was a study done on that do you know?
Jim Niemeyer:† Iíve got a copy of the study downstairs and its quite a elaborateÖ
Don Williams:† BLA did that study, I believe.
Carl Conner: In the meantime, Jim, what can we do to help alleviate this situation, for example, I guess one of my questions is, has Sterchi developed his drainage system over there to be consistent with the approved drainage plan. I mean, if heís getting water over there those are the kinds of things that I thinkÖ.
Jim Niemeyer:† Mr. Corressel lives right behind there, I think we should let him address that.
Don Williams:† †If you would before you start addressing it sir, State your name and address for the record, please.
Mr. Kissel wanted to speak.
Mr. Kissel:† Would you have any objection if we got some dirt and not filled the ditch in or anything, but build the berm up behind our property to help keep the waterÖ
Don Williams:† As long as you donít go, correct me if Iím wrong, Dave, as long as you donít go inside that natural drainage, you can put a berm across your property, I mean its not a legal drain so you can do pretty well what you want with your own property, I mean if you want to clean the ditch, you can also do that, as far as that goes.
Mr. Kissel:† That cost a little bit more than what I want to do right now.
Don Williams:† †We, on the other hand at this point and time have no authority to do that, we can clean the legal drain, the drain that one goes into, but we canít go on private property unless you, for example had intentionally impeded that natural drain, then we could make you clear it out.
Mr. Kissel:† This would help us to make the berm higher to try and keep more water out.
Don Williams:† I donít see any problem with that do you>
David K. Zengler:† †No, as long as they donít yeah impede,† yeah well natural
Mr. Kissel:† Weíre not planning on doing that at all.
Don Williams:† †As long as you donít impede the water going down through there you should be able to do that without any problem I would think.
Mr. Kissel thanked the Board for their help.
Mr. Leon Corressell:†
Don Williams:† How do you spell your last name?
C-o-r-r-e-s-s-e-l-l and thatís
Don Williams:† Are you talking the Howard-Williams Ditch, we are in the process of cleaning it out, are we not?
Jim Niemeyer: We are not the immediately.
Don Williams:† Not there immediately, but we are going in that direction to clean it.
Leon Corressell:† Now,
Iíve been there 30 years and there was this guy by the name of Scott, I donít
remember his last name, but I used to work with him through the Surveyor and
they came out there many years ago and did a little bit and they sprayed them.
I donít know if you still spray ditches after you clean them out you know like
spray the trees so they donít get in this condition. That would be a big help
on these ditches after youíve spent all that money cleaning them out, then you
get all this stuff growing up in there. Itís like your fighting a losing
battle. I donít know if
Don Williams:† Now, was there ever this problem before this new subdivision wasÖÖ..
Mr. Corressell: There has been problems, but not like it is now.† I think theyíve had water three times in the last year and a half, I know two times in the last year possibly three times.
Mr. Kissel explained that it has happened 3 times and twice it got in the house bad, No weíve had it 4 times, twice it got in the house bad† 2 times it approached getting in the house.
Mr. Corressell: But I think there was one other time many years ago before they lived there, but nothing like this. And also where I live, I live behind Sterchi also and my neighbor, Jerry, we have a problem also that is developing and Mr. Niemeyer knows about that.
Don Williams:†† I do too, Iíve been out there.
Mr. Corressell:† Thereís a drain back there, itís for looks as far as Iím concerned because actually what happens to me is, if you get a hard rain that thing wonít take it and to me waterís coming out of there. I took pictures to Jim Morley, Jr. and showed them to him and he couldnít believe it, he said there is no way that could happen, and I said it is. So I took pictures and he finally admitted that there has been a problem there. Now I donít know it that behind Ivy Glen gets so full and it backs up on us, I have no idea. But there is water coming out of there. I donít have the pictures with me, but they built a little dam about a year ago back by that drain, well we had a hard rain and it just washed it right away.
Jim Niemeyer:† Thatís the berm behind there.
Mr. Corressell:† They put another one there, same place, plus they went around Jerryís back yard and itís starting in the last two rains to give way. What happens is matter of fact it was coming over the berms by his house last week.
Don Williams:† Who put the berm in? Did you? Jerry orÖ..
Mr. Corressell:† No, Sterchi did
( ??JERRY??) Sterchi did that because of the complaints that we had, Iíve never had this much water in my yard before and Iíve been there 6 years and never had this much water,
Don Williams:† †Perhaps, we need to research and see if his drainage basin is at the proper depth. Everything is supposed to be designed on a fifty year storm, course anymore it seems like 2-3 times a year we get a 50 and every once in a while a 100 year storm but I think we need to research that because it sounds to me just from listening that part of the problem anyway is that development.
Mr. Corressell:† Well
its that and plus like you say it comes from
Don Williams:† We know that most of the legal drains werenít touched for at least 10 years we know that for sure.
Mr. Corressell:† Another question, they have a berm across my backyard and Jerryís to their swale from Sterchiís and Iím getting a lot of water, is it improper for me to take the drain from my yard and run it underneath that berm into their swale?
Don Williams:†† Do they have a swale where your water canít come out of your property?
Mr. Corressell:† Yes, the water canít come out, itís coming from behind my house behind Jerryís house and it has no place to go because the berm is there and its running all over on us.
Don Williams:† Is the swale on your property?
Mr. Corressell:† Itís on Sterchiís property, right on the line pretty close.
Don Williams:† That soundís like an issue between the property owners, I donít think this Board can tell you if you can or cannot to something like that.
Mr. Corressell:† Okay, I understand that. Now when his water comes out of his swale like when that drain overruns and the rest of his property past that drain, a lot of that water come from 164 comes down at a point right at the end of my property the far northwest corner, thereís nothing there. I had Sterchi out there one day and he said well youíve got a storm sewer right there. Itís not a storm sewer, what it is, is an old clay field tile and thereís a split about 4-5 inches and the farmer, Mr. Allen when he used to farm that and the Grimms used to drain some of that water from the field in there. But there is no place for this water to go. Now, one of the farmers many years ago kind of made a ditch behind my house and the neighbors pines, well when it gets to her pines it has no place to go past that it just lays there. So I donít know, there needs to be something from there going to that ditch the Howard-Williams Ditch. That would help the water, if this thing does overflow from Sterchiís if that drain doesnít take it and it does overflow at lease the water could get out of there. But the way it is now it just lays there. I do have pictures on that on how deep itís gotten.
Carl Conner: Iíve been out there several times and I know Jimís been out there and I know other Commissioners have been out there and I really thing what you have there is in that area you have major drainage problems that somehow we have to address. I donít think that itís going to really be a positive impact upon anyone for example if we go in there and build a berm to keep water off of your property or to keep water out of your neighbors house. I think we have major drainage problems there and I think that we have to come up with some kind of solution to that entire area and I think that a part of the solution is determining whether or not Sterchiís Development is consistent with drainage plans that were approved by the Drainage Board. I think one of the other issues that we have to do and all these things we need to be doing in my opinion simultaneously is we have to look for ways to channel the water from Kenosha Hills appropriately to some other area. We also have to get the legal drains cleaned out, so what I would like to suggest anyway, is I would like to suggest to see by chance the County Surveyors Office could come back at some time at one of our meetings in August and have some alternative proposals that we can look at that will address the entire area there. Now, in the meantime, Jimís planning on cleaning out part of that ditch down around the storage facility and things like that, he can go ahead and do. But, I think youíve got a major issue but you have a number of issues that have created it and we just need to look at the entire picture.
Mr. Corressell agreed with Mr. Conner.
Don Williams: †We need to have Dave also look at our bonding authority and see ifÖ.cause I think itís only a matter of time and I donít think itís that far away from all the problems we have to do something now. An issue that I think weíre all aware of is the MS-4 issue where we are having to establish a storm water management department. There may be some funding mechanism †in that department to help do some of this on a priority basis course that ordinance is presently being drafted, we havenít approved it yet but itís coming.
Mr. Corressell: Another question? I donít know, I just talked to Jim the other day about it, that field west of me between my house and 164 they had some things they were working on up here last fall, I was up to some meetings. I donít know what is ever going to happen with that, but that is one where they okíd the berm to come down through there because it starts from Off the Wall Sports where it used to be, coming down through there and somehow or another when Andy Easely did this back in 1997, it is in the covenants that the berm has to be there all the way through and I had Mr. Morley Jr. convinced about putting a ditch back there and a fence for me, that way it would drain that water to Howard-Williams, so if that ever gets developed over there and they raise that, weíre going to have more problems if something is not done. If that field between my house and 164 north of Off the Wall Sports which is not is some kind of other buildingÖÖ.
Yeah, itís a
Mr. Corressell: If you look at that after a hard rain that is nothing but like a lake and if they build that up, you know where Iím going to be. I mean I have no water in my house, but I do have it in my yard, but I donít want it to get in my house.
Carl Conner:† Jim, do you think that you could have some options put together for us with some tentative pricing sometime next month to address those needs over there?
Jim Niemeyer: ††††I believe so, I did have an engineer write up a proposal about the whole area in general and that would be a good starting point, but there needs to be a study done to look at that water shed and immediate steps we can take would be to clean the rest of Howard-Williams Ditch out. Friday if I have all the people at hand, I plan to run a profile on that swale behind these homes that are having problems through Colonial Hills. Iíve got everything pretty much ready if it is agreeable with everybody to make that a legal drain back there, Iíve got all the addresses and the paperwork pretty well done. I just need to get it sent out. Then Iíve got all the utilities located from all the cable companyís, gas company etc, so I know where all those structures are, that much is done.
Carl Conner:† Now, on the Legal Drain, I think thatís an excellent idea, because then that would open up access to some sources of funding.
Jim Niemeyer:† We need to take it all the way out there to Epworth. Kenosha Hills generates a lot of water, there is a lot of runoff and a lot of water that flows from north to south along Epworth that gets into that ditch out there.
Carl Conner:† Would that legal drain then cover the entire subdivision of Colonial Hills and take it right out to the intersection.
Jim Niemeyer:† Yes
Don Williams:† Do you funds to do all that?
Jim Niemeyer:† No, we need a bond. If weíre really going to fix it, you know but we canÖif we donít have to much trouble with the underground utilities there in that swale that runs through there, we may be able to lower the ditch a little bit and increase the flow rate out of that and I believe there is a sewer pipe there on the west side, did you have a chance to look at that, Leon?
Mr. Corressell:† I did and I even asked Steve, but I donít what know that is, itís been there forever, Jim.
Jim Niemeyer:† I talked to the Newburg Sewer Department, I told them what was there, I donít know what it is, but if it is a sewer there, then theyíre going to have to move it or fix it someway, cause we need to get across that to get into the Howard-Williams Ditch.
Sean Owen:† The pipe is actually visible, when you look down in the bottom of the ditch you can see the pipe sitting there.
Carl Conner:† Okay, do you think the 23rd, you could be ready to give us someÖ.
Jim Niemeyer:† I think so.
Carl Conner:† Mr. President, I want to make a motion if I can and see if it passes. I Ďd like for the County Surveyorís Office to look at some options and price out those options and come back to the Drainage Board on August 23rd for purposes of us looking at some solutions to the drainage problem in the Colonial Hills area and a part of that would be looking at what has presently been done on Sterchiís property relative to consistency with the drainage plan on file that was approve by the Drainage Board, also with the proposal of doing that ditch in there as a legal drain and in addition to that looking at possibly some solutions to head off that water thatís draining out of Kenosha Hills over there.
Don Williams:† The private ditch that they were talking about Mr. Kissel was talking about being all clogged up?
Carl Conner: Yes, making that a legal drain. Sounds like Jim has already done a lot of the leg work that needs to be done.
Mr. Corressell: I know heís been out there several times.
Carl Conner: Thatís my motion.
Phil Baxter:†† Second
†Don Williams:† A motion was made and seconded basically to investigate the drainage problems along Colonial Hills and Kenosha Hills and see if we can come up with some kind of solution by August 23, 2006, all in favor state by saying aye. All three Board members voted aye motion was carried 3-0.
Don Williams:† †If we cannot do that as a legal drain, you know in talking about making that a legal drain you know there is a 75-foot easement on each side of that ditch if we make that clogged area a legal drain, which would come 75-feet from the top of bank and a lot of people have problems when we start saying we have an easement on the back of your property, course we can and maybe able to cut that down some, since itís already there, butÖ.
Sean Owen:† I think 75 would probably be in all the houses.
Jim Niemeyer: I donít think weíll be able to use 75-feet there.
Someone from the audience stated that 75-feet would take half of their houses.
Don Williams:† That is what I was thinking, so how much is there between the top of the bank and your house.
Mr. Corressell stated probably 8-10-feet. Might be 15 in some.
Don Williams:† See, thatís not enough room to get equipment in there to clean it.
Phil Baxter :† Are you talking the width of the ditch or you talking from the edge of the ditch to the house?
Don Williams:† We need edge of the ditch to the house.
Answer from audience member:† Probably 25-feet, thereís enough room to get equipment in there because they had equipment in there a couple of weeks ago to replace a sewer line that was underneath there and they didnít have any problem getting in there.
Carl Conner: I donít thing getting equipment in there is going to be the problem as long as we have consensus from the owners to get in there and get that ditch cleaned out.
Don Williams:† It will take a few months to turn it into a legal drain so this Board can do it, but if that is what the property owners desire we could certainly look at it,† all you do is make a request to this Board and this Board will make a request to the Commissioners which is us by a different name.
Jim Niemeyer:† I think we can get the paper work done.
Don Williams:† Lets look and see what his suggestions are next month and weíll go from there. Anything else to come before the Board? Please come forward and state your name and address for the record.
Joseph Lenko:† Joesph
and Ruth Lenko, we live at 84 Stonegate in
Don Williams:† That would probably be a civil matter if the neighbor has caused the problem, I would think it would be a civil matter.
Ruth Lenko:† What do you mean when you say a civil matter, whatÖ.
Don Williams:† It means you go talk to your neighbor and if he doesnít take care of it then you go talk to an attorney and sue him.
Ruth Lenko:† Well, we have a ditch in the back of our house that we pay taxes on a little portion of ground on the other side of the ditch that apparently was put in there when that property was developed years ago and the property next to us, they had a tile under their yard that came out, an open tile that ran into the ditch. Okay, when we rebuilt our house we hooked onto their tile and to prevent us from having water standing back there with mosquitoes all the time, we tiled that on down to the next property. Well, they say theyíre going to hook onto that, but heís went higher with his house and heís put his yard down like this, so the other day when we had that hard rain, it was coming like a river coming down and around, it come down to our patio and filled underneath our house with water and we have never had that before.
Don Williams:† Is he aware of that problem?† What kind of response did you get from your neighbor? Was it neighborly or un-neighborly?
Ruth Lenko:† Yes, he is aware of it, but they are still building there so I donít know what his final stage is going to be on his yard. But we just more or less wanted to know what our rights are. I heard you say a while ago was kind of interesting when you told me he could build a levy back to keep water from coming back on his property. So if we have dirt pulled in there and build a levy all around our property, are we in the right then since no water can come over?
Don Williams:† †I canít answer that. He is in a position that maybe he can give you some legal advice, but I certainly canít.
David K. Zengler:† Basically, you canít (inaudible) in flow† (inaudible) the natural drainage of property so if thatís being disrupted in some fashion, you may have certain rights to do that, you know, however, this Board wouldnít have necessarily the authority to do anything because really itís a private disagreement with your neighbor.
Ruth Lenko: Well, when youíre building new houses, donít this Board have to ok the drainage parts to those homes.
Jim Niemeyer: May I say something, all those homes out there, I wonít say all, but it appears that a lot were built without regard to anything, I mean they put a house in there and they wanted it 20-foot high they put it 20-foot high, if they wanted this in there they did that. There was no control and I mentioned this before but it took a storm to bring this out and at the same time, itís too late cause the homes were built and they had permits to build them without regard to the neighbors how the next guy was going to get along or how he was going to handle this water or anything and it is bad.
Ruth Lenko:† Originally that subdivision was restricted to certain type homes and such, now theyíre building great big homes and raised their property lines and just do what they want to do and to heck they just seem like their just washing off down on everybody else. I thought there should be some building codes somewhere that they would have to follow in doing that. I know when you get your building permit you have to have an inspector come out in different stages to inspect and Iím wondering what theyíre inspecting is they donít inspect that kind of thing.
Don Williams:† Itís strictly structural building itself.
Mr. Lenko:† A lot of this water is coming off from Lancaster too and this is part of their sewer that starts back there and takes this rain water and everything and is what brings it under his property and under our property now that weíve put a tile in and itís brining it out on the neighbor which they are going to put a tile in and its carryingÖÖÖ..
Ruth Lenko:† Itís got to go somewhere thereís no place for it to go once its tileÖÖ
Don Williams:† Thereís no stopping it from going either. You have to make accommodation for water.
Ruth Lenko: I think thereís a tile that goes out to the street maybe, I donít know on down past us, but the house three doors down their ground is level, I donít know where all this is coming from and then it is just flooding out the street washing mud. Like you said the other day we couldnít even drive through it.
Jim Niemeyer:† There are no curb drains out there, itís another one of those areas that I was mentioning to Carl too, that we could add to the list. It just never was done.
Ruth Lenko:† If we put a levy around there to protect our property, somebodyís going to get it, somebody else is going to be up here. I though possibly there was some kind of code people had to build by like they couldnít drain next door, they had toÖ..
Don Williams:† When people put in subdivisions today we do. If they put them in right itís not supposed to cause problems, course youíve already heard that we have at least one that is causing problems. But back, Iím not sure when that area was built but apparently there wasnít anything in place and I think the only recourse you have is dealing with your neighbor, whether the group gets together and puts a bigger tile in to carry that water out or he agrees to hook into the drainage, because if you are getting flooded out in your crawlspace and that has never happened before. Itís not hard to determine where the fault is or I wouldnít thing it would be hard. The question is, is he willing to work with you or does it have to be the hard way. I think and I donít mean to be coarse or non-compassionate but I think the only option you have at this point is dealing with your neighbor and talking to him and if he is un-neighborly then you may have to get you an attorney.
Mr. Lenko:† He assures me that everything will be alright when they are done, but now heís washed out my flowers cause heís got mud all over my flowers and everything, mud across my driveway.
Ruth Lenko:† Our contractor seeded our yard and seeded the side and the mud has washed down and its all gone. We planted flowers on the side and they have been washed out, they are covered in mud right now so there has been damage done while all this has been going on.
Mr. Lenko: Our contractor was going to come back in and put another foot of dirt on our property like a berm to direct itÖwe have also a surface drain that goes into our tile so it carries our surface water the best way it can. Well, heís already graded his yard somewhat so that it will come into our drain, so we donít knowÖI mean if that is the only choice we have then weíll have to do that butÖ..
Don Williams:† This Board really doesnít have any jurisdiction in the matter. Itís just like with the ditch behind these folks house, right now we donít, but if we make it a legal drain which means by law we control† it, but where you all are talking about, I donít thatís even going to be a consideration, it sounds like.
Mr. Lenko: Well there is a drain right behind this
gentlemanís property next to us, it comes off of
Don Williams:† Hopefully your neighbor will keep his word. You know him better than I do, I donít know who your neighbor is butÖÖ
Ruth Lenko: So there isnít anything that the Drainage Board can do, they donít have any regulations.
Don Williams:† Our jurisdiction is strictly for the legal drains and major water carriers getting them out where the smaller ditches can flow into them. If somebody impedes what we call a natural drain, which is what youíre talking about, then by law we can go in and require a person who clogs up one to open it back up at their expense or we can do it for them and bill them. But, as far as what your talking about a neighbor rebuilding there and I mean that was terrible as the three of us spent a lot of hours down in that area as well as up here in this area and as tragic as that event was these are the type of things are happening and hopefully your neighbor will have some compassion to work it out with you. He says he will, lets see if he does and if he doesnít I think that youíve gotÖÖ
Mr. Lenko:† What about what Mr. Niemeyer was talking about that we have no curb sewers to carry that water off, if we had curbs sewers it would carry that water off faster, then maybe we would not have that great a problem.
Don Williams:† And the only way I know to do that would be for the neighbors in the area to do it. I mean, we canít do that either. This Boardís hands are tied as far as what we can legally do with the funds that we have. Itís not that we donít want to, as I said earlier we do have a Storm Water Management Department that will be coming into being which is a State Mandate Fund concerning other issues. But, if we do that County wide, then we will hopefully have some funds to spend on a priority basis throughout the County. But that is not here yet and the ordinances we are currently working on, but that doesnít answer your problems either. My heart goes out to you, but I donít know what else to say with this Boardís hands, Am I wrong, somebody correct me but our hands are pretty well tied. I feel badly about that.
Ruth Lenko:† Okay, I guess weíll get an attorney. Spend some more money. Okay thank you.
Don Williams:† I there is anything we can do for you let us know. Is there anything else to come before this Board?
Jerry Terhune:† My
name is Jerry Terhune. Itís T-e-r-h-u-n-e. My address is
Don Williams:† Right, thatís what Jim is going to do and if I have an opportunity before school starts back Iíll get down there and look at it also and Carl itís in his area also as he lives down there.
Mr. Terhune: I think that itís a problem, itís different than the problem theyíve got itís all coming from the same place but the water theyíre getting is coming from the east end of Sterchi Subdivision and ours is coming from the south end of it, but itís all a problem. I just wanted to get that out, thank you.
Don Williams:† Is there anything else to come before the Board, if not Iíll entertain a motion to adjourn.
Carl Conner:† So moved
Phil Baxter:† Second
Motion was made to adjourn and seconded. All three Board members voted aye. Motion passed 3-0.