AUGUST 9, 2006



107 W. Locust St. Suite 303

Boonville, IN 47601



The Warrick County Drainage Board met in regular session with President Don Williams presiding, also in attendance were Phillip H. Baxter, Vice-President; Jim Niemeyer, Surveyor and David K. Zengler, Attorney for the Board. Mr. Carl Conner was absent.

Also in attendance was Sean M. Owen, Deputy Surveyor.


Audience attendance was Mark Barton, Todd Kelly, Ken Ubelhor, Marco Delucio, Jim Morley, Jr. and Karl Tanner.


Don Williams:  Warrick County Drainage Board for August 9, 2006 will now come to order. The first item on the agenda is the approval of minutes from July 26, 2006, do I have a motion?


Phil Baxter:  I move we approve the minutes of July 26, 2006.


Mr. Williams seconded the motion, both members voted aye, motion passed 2-0.






Don Williams:  If there are any representatives for Bellmoore Landing, please come forward.


Marco Delucio:  Marco Delucio for Bellmoore Landing and Jim Morley who is the project engineer.


Jim Niemeyer:  They are here today, at one of our previous meetings, there were requested to make some changes by the engineer, I believe, in so far as the entrances are concerned.


Jim Morley, Jr:  We are here for the first time though, we haven’t been in front of the Drainage Board yet, but from previous conversations with Sean, I’m not aware of any drainage issues.


Sean Owen:  The drainage system is sufficient, all the pipes seem to be sized correctly and they’re allowable release rate for the property was 63.73 CFS and they are releasing…they have a little bit of undetained, I believe like 20 CFS un-detained and then they’re discharge from the retention is down to three. So, they are retaining almost 40 CFS more than what they need to.


Don Williams:  So, they are retaining enough for a hundred year flood?


Sean Owen:  Yes


Don Williams:  I thought so, I have been looking at the hole get bigger out there.


Jim Morley, Jr.: The retention basin is..I don’t remember exactly, but I think it’s several times the size it needs to be for that piece of property because fill is required and the plus side for the County is that you get a bigger retention pond.


Don Williams:  I don’t have a problem with the retention pond on the east side, Bell Road. I do have a problem with you crossing a legal drain twice. This Board has to approve those crossings, I believe and I have a lot of concerns about two.


Jim Morley, Jr.: About the double crossing?


Don Williams:  Yes, my preference would be that you just cross it once and the northern entrance would be the one I’d suggest. As per our road ordinance of lining up with subdivisions that are across the street. This is just to let you know where I’m at with that.


Marco Delucio:  I was just going to say that the road to the north, I think that does line up with the existing road.


Don Williams:  Yes, I don’t have a problem with that one, the one it looks like it’s about 163 or 165 feet lower, I have a problem with that one. I do as one member of the Board, I don’t know if Commissioner Baxter and Commissioner Conner, of course is not here today. I know there are issues on the road and I understand you are proposing a road change which I haven’t had a chance to really look at it all that much yet, but…


Marco Delucio:  The proposal we had for the road change is to make that and it doesn’t solve the problem of crossing the drain twice, but it is to eliminate…to make that a one lane right out only road, one way.


Don Williams:  Well, that’s a different Board, okay. I’ve seen those and to get off the subject, I don’t have the problem. I don’t think with the right end off Libbert, but I have a problem with the southern cause we have people who make a u-turn on Bell Road the way it is now and this….we’ll talk about it at a different meeting but with the understanding that this Board, I would….do you have any other input that you want to say about this?


Marco Delucio:  I guess I would just have one question and maybe Mr. Morley could answer the question I have is, is the policy of only crossing that one…this is a fairly large tract of…..

Don Williams:  As far as I know this is the only time we have had this type of situation at least in my tenure as a Commissioner where we’ve had two crossings in a legal drain that close together. I again personally see no lead for that lower entrance period. I can understand the right end off Libbert that you were proposing earlier, but this one on Bell and we’re looking at expanding that down the road and so I have concerns with that one.


Marco Delucio:  I guess what we would….and I understand the road issues going to come up in a little bit, but is it possible to proceed with the approval of the drainage plans and then undertake the……


Don Williams:  I don’t mind approving the drainage plan with the understanding that this Board is approving only the crossing of the ditch in one place. I mean I would be willing to make a motion to approve the drainage plans with the understanding that the southern crossing on Bell not be crossed.


Marco Delucio:  And if we get the…if we come back and talk about the road plans later, can somehow convince you that that access point is okay, do we come back to the Drainage Board for approval, I’m just trying to figure out the procedure.


Don Williams:  You could…I guess they could come back, but I don’t think that will fly, at least not today cause I know where this Commissioner stands and he is either going to be the same or different and if he’s different you will have to wait for Commissioner Conner to be here, so…yes, you certainly can sir, just come back and repetition for that crossing.


Marco Delucio:  I think we would appreciate approval of the drainage plans today subject to that condition, with the understanding that we may try to come back at a later point and convince you otherwise.


Don Williams:  Okay, I’ll even make that a motion that we approve the drainage plans as presented with the exception of the southern most crossing of the legal drain on Bell Road and with the understanding that should the road plan be approved for that, then the parties have a right to come back and repetition for that crossing.


Jim Niemeyer: Excuse me, I’m not sure but there may be a crossing over a sewer line there and we would need a…….


Sean Owen:  I’ve been talking to Mr. Morley and he is working on getting Hold Harmless’s from Newburgh Sewer for a couple of…..


Don Williams:   The sewer line is between them and Newburgh that doesn’t affect us.


Sean Owen:  Well, they’re in the legal drain.


Don Williams:  I understand that, so there are issues there and now we need a Hold Harmless.

Jim Morley, Jr.: When we tap the legal….when we tap the sanitary sewer, the existing sanitary sewer is inside the legal drain right of entry so we would have to think it might be a thirty foot stretch where we got to get it which is inside the legal drain and then come out of the legal drain with it. I can show you where it’s at on the plan.


Don Williams:  I don’t think the County would have a problem with that if Newburgh doesn’t have a problem with it.


Jim Morley, Jr.:  I think Newburgh in the past has signed a Hold Harmless, I think with the County, I can’t speak for them today, but I think that is what Sean had talked about.


Don Williams:  We have a motion on the floor, do I have a second?


Phil Baxter:  Second.


Motion was made and seconded to approve the drainage plan as presented with the exception of the southern crossing of the legal drain. Both Commissioners voted aye, motion passed 2-0.




Don Williams:  Please come forward and state your name and who you represent.


Ron London:  My name is Ron London and I’m with Morley & Associates and we also have present here the owners of the development, Jagoe Land Corporation. All we are doing is reducing the subdivision lot, we are going from 18 lots down to 9. The drainage out there has already been acceptance along with the roads so we were told by the Area Plan that we just needed to come back to get this reaffirmed.


Don Williams:  Do you have any problems?


Ron London:  No


Jim Niemeyer:  They didn’t change anything.


Sean Owen:  They are reducing the amount of lots and making them bigger.


Don Williams:  Do you have anything you want to add? If not, do I have a motion on Item 2 there Village at Riverwalk.


Phil Baxter:  I move we approve.


Motion was made to approve the replat of Village at Riverwalk, it was seconded by Commissioner Williams. Both members voted aye. Motion carried 2-0.





Don Williams:  The next item is Victoria Bluffs, is there someone here to represent that issue?


Mark Barton:  Mark Barton, with Bernardin & Lochmueller representing Victoria Manor.


Don Williams:  We also have a replat  here. Would you state the replat.


Mark Barton: We’re re-plating 5 lots down to 4 to increase the width of the lots for larger homes. The drainage plans have already been approved and it in place and has been constructed.


Don Williams:  There is no additional run-off?


Mark Barton:  No, simply widening 4 build able lots out of 5 existing, going from 90-foot lots to 112 ½  reducing the number by 1.


Don Williams:   Do you have anything Mr. Surveyor to add?


Jim Niemeyer:  No, everything is fine.


Don Williams:  Any questions from the Board? I’ll entertain a motion.


Phil Baxter:  I’d move we approve the request for Victoria Manor for lots 5,6,7,8 & 9.


Motion was made to approve the replat of Victoria Bluffs and seconded, both members voted aye. Motion carried 2-0.




Don Williams:  Would you state your name and who your represent.


Ken Ubelhor:  Ken Ubelhor representing Marion Wright, we have limited Power of Attorney on file.


Jim Niemeyer:  This project is one…lets see ….it appears to be everything insofar as drainage appears to be satisfactory, there is less run-off than before cause it went from farm land to grass surface and they are requesting no drainage.


Don Williams:  What are the size of the lots?


Ken Ubelhor:  The lots are basically, the smallest one is 117 by 550, I have three like that and then there are 4 that are 200 by 550, so they are big lots.


Sean Owen:  They are between  1 and 1 ½ acres.

Don Williams:  Where is the water going, then?


Ken Ubelhor:  It will run basically to Pecka Ditch, it’ll run to the southeast part.


Don Williams:  I’m looking here at the elevations, Mr. Surveyor, is that going to handle….


Jim Niemeyer:  It should, by calculations it says it will.


Don Williams:  So Pecka Ditch itself is serving as retention, is that what you are saying?


Ken Ubelhor:  Well, actually I don’t think…I think there will be less water going there with my project then what was there now because with residential lots you have mostly all grass and it was a farm field and a farm field runs off quicker. So there will be less water hitting Pecka.


Don Williams:  Are these just….are some of these lots going to be serviced by same drive-ways, shared drive-ways?


Ken Ubelhor:  Yes, they will be a single….there is a house and barn there now which is already existing and then there will be three double shared drive-ways, I think and then one single on the other end. On either end I think there is a single drive-way and the middle are shared drive-ways because it is an odd number of lots.


Don Williams:  There are 8 lots?


Ken Ubelhor:  8 lots all total and like I say but there are existing drive-way already for the southern and when you get down to the other end, its when you share them up there it makes another odd one on the other end.


Don Williams:  Are there any other comments? If not I would entertain a motion from the Board.


Phil Baxter:  I’d move we approve the drainage plans for Wright Estates.


Motion was made and seconded by Commissioner Williams, both commissioners voted aye, motion was carried 2-0.






Karl Tanner:  Karl Tanner with Wessler & Associates, I am here on behalf of the Chandler Utilities. As described in the letter these two crossings are involved with gravity sewers.


Don Williams: Are you going to bore under the ditches, is that….how are you crossing them?


Karl Tanner:  The way we’ve shown it is for open trench and it would be…we’d use diversion dams and trench ½ at a time and one of the reasons is because boring we feel would cause more disturbance then just trenching because of the depth of the bore pitch required to get the equipment on the bore in the receiving pits.


Don Williams:  How far below the water line are you going to go?


Karl Tanner:  On Stollberg Ditch, we’ve got 1 ½ feet roughly a little bit more and we’re proposing just PVC pipe with that STR26 which is pressure grade and under Stollberg, I’m sorry I’ve got that backwards. Under Stollberg it is 1 and 1.6 feet with pressure grade pipe and under Whitaker is approximately 1 foot and we proposing to use ductile pipe in that case because of the….


Don Williams:  Use what?


Karl Tanner:  Ductile pipe which is………


Don Williams:  Are you going to cover the pipes with some protection?


Karl Tanner:  At this time we hadn’t planned on it because of the risk of sheering the pipe with the weight of the concrete and in the past we’ve seen safely if you have concrete encasement, but of course if the Drainage Board requires that we could accommodate that requirement.


Don Williams:   I personally would like to see that covered and do we not normally get a Hold Harmless on these? So I would want both of those the Hold Harmless and some type of protective covering. It doesn’t necessarily have to be concrete but something that when they hit it they’ll know they hit something before they tear into it.


Karl Tanner: Okay, also just to further that IDEM requires methods on both sides of ditch crossings to stop any kind of flow if something goes wrong, so that is built into the design as well.


Jim Niemeyer:  Will you valve it?


Karl Tanner: Well, since these are gravity lines typically what we do is just put man holes immediately on either side and that allows you access to plug it.


Don Williams:  Do you need this passes today?


Karl Tanner: We would request that, yes.


Don Williams:  I’m willing to support this issue contingent upon the Hold Harmless being completed and signed and a covering on the pipe. Is that agreeable?


Karl Tanner:  As an alternate to concrete would a casing pipe be acceptable as well, like a corrugated metal pipe then you would run you’re actual pipe through the middle of that.


Don Williams:  I think that would be ok, we need something to hit before we hit the main pipe, your going to have it staked anyway where you know about where it’s at.


Karl Tanner: So either one of those would be acceptable?


Don Williams:   I would move that we approve the Chandler’s Utilities request for Stollberg and Whitaker Ditches with the provision that a Hold Harmless be signed for the County’s benefit and also that the pipes be encased in either concrete or metal.


Phil Baxter:  Second


Motion was made and seconded for Chandler Utilities, both members of the Board voted aye. Motion passed 2-0.




Don Williams:   Mr. Todd Kelly complaint about developer not controlling soil erosion. If you would for the record please state your full name and address please.


Todd Kelly:  My name is James Todd Kelly at 6466 River Ridge or Pebble Point Court in River Ridge Subdivision in Newburgh, Indiana.


Don Williams:  Go ahead and state your business.


Todd Kelly:  I am here seeking the Boards assistance in helping to bring the developer in River Ridge into compliance with the soil and erosion plan which they had filed. At this current time the lots behind my lot and when we first experienced this problem to the north of my lot, there were no silt fences, riprap, permanent seeding any measures to control soil erosion whatsoever. Due to that problem soil has eroded, what I found approximately about a foot deep from where it was originally. There is a storm drain to the north of my lot, the erosion has filled in the storm drain, now whenever I have any rain storms the water comes out of there and discharges onto my lot and it’s eroding my property away and it just continuing to get worse. I do have some photographs if you would like to see them.


Don Williams:  We don’t always require this, but we prefer when we receive photographs that they remain the property of the Surveyor. I’m more than willing to look as long as you don’t have a dozen of them. (just relax, you’re shaking, we’re a couple of friendly guys) Now is this your property where the crack is on the hill side here, is this your property abutting here. You’re talking about the erosion.

Todd Kelly: That is some of it and then of further back…..there is the storm drain there.


Don Williams:  That looks like a normal flow coming down through here, now is this their storm drain pipe?


Todd Kelly: It’s a storm drain pipe, yeah.


Don Williams:  Have you investigated this, Jim?


Jim Niemeyer:  No I haven’t seen it and I have been on several of those before.


Don Williams:  Now is that part of this Board’s responsibility? I’m not sure you’re in the right place.


Jim Niemeyer:  I think that this comes under Soil & Water Conservation.


Todd Kelly:  I’ve dealt with Jane out there.


Don Williams:  Any help at all?


Todd Kelly:  I’ve spoken with IDEM, Rob Burke up in Indianapolis.


Don Williams:  Well, you’re talking to the right people there.


Todd Kelly: And he is trying to get people to come down and look at it.


Don Williams:   Cause IDEM usually it comes under them and they usually take care of it cause its….Now it’s not too much longer we’re in the process with the MS4 where we will be able to do this under our Stormwater Management Department, but we don’t have the department in place.


Todd Kelly:  I’m just getting frustrated trying to get him into compliance and I was told that this Board is another good avenue.


Don Williams:  Basically, what this Board does, is we’re in charge of all the regulated drains, like the large ditches that escort the water to the river and so forth. As far as like normal drain get impeded and somebody like if you’ve got a drain (a normal natural drain) somebody dams that up intentionally or un-intentionally then we have the authority to have them clear that, but that is pretty well where the authority limits of this Board. So I think we can give you back your pictures because as much as I’d like to help you, this isn’t the place. IDEM will take care to that, I don’t know if Area Plan can.


Sean Own: It would just be IDEM and Soil and Water, I believe.


Phil Baxter: I don’t think Area Plan can help.


Mr. Kelly asked a question about the Storm Drain and the County Highway Department.


Don Williams:  They need to know if one of our County storm drains is getting clogged up. The number is 6126, you let them know its getting clogged and they can take some action to get it cleaned as we have enough flooding problems the way it is. I do appreciate your time very much, Mr. Kelly. Anytime you talk to government just relax, we’re regular guys just like you.


Phil Baxter:  Thank You, I appreciate it also.


Mr. Kelly thanked the Board for their time.


Don Williams:  Have you had a chance to look at the claims, Commissioner Baxter, we have claims in the amount of $18,460.63. Do you have any questions?


Phil Baxter:  No. I move we pay the claims.


The motion was made to pay claims and seconded by Don Williams. Both Commissioners voted aye. Motion carried 2-0.


Don Williams:  Any other business to come before the Board?


David K. Zengler: Yes, at your last meeting you had asked me to investigate the bonding authority of the County Drainage Board and bonds are authorized by State Statute that the  Drainage Board can issue bonds for projects. Obviously there are a series of steps to go through and to do that requires resolutions and so on, but they can do that.


Don Williams:  At your convenience could you kind of out-line those steps for us. It would be nice if each one of the Board members had that. It’s not urgent ok, I appreciate that. Anybody else have anything to come before the board?


Phil Baxter:  I move we adjourn.


Motion was made to adjourn, 2nd by Don Williams. Both members voted aye. Motion carried 2-0. Meeting adjourned.