SEPTEMBER 13, 2006
COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM
Boonville, In 47601
The Warrick County Drainage Board met in regular session with President Don Williams presiding, Carl Jay Conner, Secretary; Jim Niemeyer, Surveyor and David K. Zengler, Attorney for Board. Phillip H. Baxter was absent.
Also in attendance was Sean M. Owen, Deputy Surveyor.
Audience attendance was B. Armarz, M.D., Harold Harkins,
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Carl Conner:† Yes, and I would move that we approve the minutes as presented.
Don Williams:† Iíll second that motion, all in favor say aye. Both members voted aye with motion carried 2-0.
WYNGATE SUBDIVISION SECTION A:
Jim Niemeyer: The next item is Wyngate Subdivision for amended drainage plans to Wyngate Subdivision.
Bruce Miller:† Bruce
Miller Barrington Development Group, Iím here gentleman requesting a
modification of the drainage plans for Wyngate Subdivision Section A. The
retention basin, the original drainage plan is for dry retention as the new
basin is also dry retention. I have moved that retention basin from the
Don Williams:† Thank you, Mr. Miller, any comments, Mr. Surveyor?
Jim Niemeyer:† We reviewed the drawings and they are very much the same as the originals, so I donít see that there is any problem with it.
Don Williams:† Are there any questions?† What is the will of the Board?
Carl Conner:† I would move that we approve the amended drainage plans for Wyngate Subdivision.
Mr. Williams seconded the motion, both members voted aye. Motion carried 2-0.
Bill Bivins:† Bill Bivins, Engineer. The reason we are back before you, the primary for the whole subdivision was approved but we are re-platting two of the lots, so due to the fact that we are re-platting, we are not changing any of the drainage flow or anything, we have to come back before you. There is nothing changed from the original as far as drainage.
Don Williams:† Just a re-plat? No drainage change at all?
Bill Bivins:† Thatís correct, sir.
Don Williams:† Any comments, Mr. Surveyor?
Jim Niemeyer:† I donít find anything wrong with that.
Don Williams:† Any questions?† I would entertain a motion.
Carl Conner:† I would move that we approve the Lynn Ridge Subdivision re-plat, seconded by Don Williams, both members voted aye. Motion carried 2-0.
Don Williams:† Mr. Lockhart.
RIVERTOWN HOMES-VARIANCE REQUEST:
Dennis Lockhart:† Dennis
Lockhart, Rivertown Homes. I am just here to get a variance on a patio on the
back of a house that Iím building on
Don Williams: What is your variance?
Dennis Lockhart:† Itís a fifty foot easement to the ditch there
†(Mr. Lockhart is not on microphone)
Don Williams:† This is the top of the bank of the legal drain?
Dennis Lockhart:† Correct
Don Williams:† And this comes out 20-feet.
Dennis Lockhart:† (Still not on microphone)† (sounds like) that comes out sixteen and goes across† (inaudible)
Don Williams:† Sixteen? And weíve got, how much from the patio down here? Letís see itís fifty from the house down to theÖ..
Dennis Lockhart:† about 34 foot.
Don Williams:† 34 foot, have you done investigated this Mr. Surveyor also?
Jim Niemeyer:† Yes sir.
Don Williams:† What are your comments?
Jim Niemeyer:† I think we should approve that.
Don Williams:† Donít have any problem with it at all? Plenty of room to get equipment in there if you need to?
Jim Niemeyer:† Right
Carl Conner:† I would move that we approve the request from Rivertown Homes for a variance.
Don Williams:† Iíll second that motion, all in favor. 2 ayes, motion carried 2-0.
Don Williams:† Mr. Hale Mr. Parrish?
Jim Niemeyer:† Are Mr. Hale and Parrish here?
Don Williams:† Springston Canterbury Green Subdivision, is anybody here for this issue?
What do you want to do with this, take if off the agenda and have them re-apply orÖ..
Carl Conner:† Well, to be perfectly honest with you, Iím sure that they will be back, Iíve been out there and looked at that situation and visited with a group of people and I know Jimís been out there a number of times. If you donít mind I would just move that we table it until our next meeting and hopefully they will show up and if they donít show up at the next meeting then I would support taking it off the agenda.
Don Williams:† Okay, Iíll second that we table this for a period of two weeks until next meeting. 2 ayes motion carries.
Jim Niemeyer:† I could add a point to that I did ask Mr. Engelbrecht to verify the construction, to verify that it corresponds with the plans originally. I did hear from Mr. Holbrook and he claims everythings all right.
Don Williams:† †Mr. Who?† Holweger.
Jim Niemeyer:† Holweger, but I think we should go ahead and proceed and have the plans verified.
Don Williams:† Well,
I know we have our highway crew looking at that ditch behind
Jim Niemeyer:† What I think basically is one of the drain outlets of that drainage pond may be clogged and number 2 there are fences in the drainage way that need to be raised up and I wrote those residents a letter about a year ago advising them of that and I think Mr. Ubelhor will verify that. Then too if we clean the ditches along Vann Road itís going to help that water leave the area a lot more quickly and I think the fourth thing that we should look† into is creating a drain that runs north-south from Vann Road which would tie into the Edwards Ditch. That is a real obstacle.
Don Williams:† Are you talking about making that a legal drain there? Youíve got a few hoops to jump through to get that done butÖ. Drainage continues to be a problem soÖ..
Jim Niemeyer:† Weíve had several problems and letís see do we have any claims?
Don Williams:† Yes, we do, do you have anything else there Jim before we look at claims.
Jim Niemeyer:† †We haveÖÖwellÖweíll take care of that with other business.
Don Williams:† Okay, we have claims in the amount of $8,082.14 do I have a motion to pay the claims?
Carl Conner:† I would move that we pay the claims as presented in the total dollar amount of $8,082.14. Seconded by Don Williams. 2 ayes. Motion carried 2-0.
Don Williams:† I assume we have some other business.
Jim Niemeyer:† I would like to take to opportunity to ask you if I could present Mr. Nodarse because he will provide information that is going to hopefully answer some of their questions and I know they have some, Henry.
Don Williams:† If you will give us your name and who you represent. Iím not sure what weíre talking about here yet, but Iím sure Iím going to find out.
Henry Nodarse: †My
name is Henry Nodarse and Iím a professional engineer with Bernardin
Lochmueller and Associates in
Jim Niemeyer:† Henry, I would like for you to review the study that weíre doing, which I told you would be suspended, but it is going to be reinstated.
Mr. Nodarse:† My firm
submitted a proposal to the Drainage Board to prepare a drainage report that
would analyze and evaluate and make recommendation in reference to the drainage
system that comprises Fall Creek, Mansfield Subdivision, Colonial Subdivision,
Ivy Glenn and
Don Williams:† Is extending Howard-Williams Ditch down to the river, is that part of this study?
Mr. Nodarse: we wouldÖour analysis of Howard-Williams at this point the proposal goes to 164 near Gateway where it goes past the storage facility and goes under 164 so actually it dumps into the church facility. So thatís as far as our drainage study would go at this time that is what our proposal includes.
Jim Niemeyer:† I think you were referring to the reversal of flow, Don?
Don Williams:† Well, we need something to get that water to the river, we talked about that 5 years ago, but itís got quite a price tag and back then we had a lot more bonding. I mean we only have $600,000.00 of bonding dept in the County right now. We need to seriously look at the future and the possibility of the development of the future and we need to fix these drainage problems in that area where it will be good forever and if that requires re-routing the ditch straight to the river, then I think we probably need to look at doing that because these drainage problems arenít going to stop. I mean we may slow them down, but until we get a more direct route to the river, I donít think theyíre ever going to be resolved, thatís just my personal opinion.
Jim Niemeyer:† I agree, we need to eliminate the band-aid approach.
Mr. Nodarse: We can look at the previous study, he
referencing a study that was done in 2002 of the entire length of
Howard-Williams Ditch which basically starts at Colonial Hills Subdivision and
it goes under 164 through the
Carl Conner:† Basically, it is flowing in the wrong direction.
Don Williams:† Itís going away from the river instead of to the river.
Mr. Nodarse:† A
raindrop that falls in Kenosha Hills travels some 27 miles to get to the Ohio
River when in fact it is only a mile or two from the
Don Williams:† This is definitely related to what youíre doing and Iím not so sure we ought to amend that to where we are including this in that cause we are certainly serious about doing that, at least, this Commissioner is and I think Commissioner Conner is also for it.
These problems have been going on and they are not going to stop until we do something.
Carl Conner:† I think that Don is correct, well I know Don is correct and Jim is correct. Don and I have been here for 5 years and we have been dealing with this type of issues and we have attempted to do the best that we can do under the circumstances from the perspective of manpower and financial restraints that are put on us and to give you a good example, Jim went to the County Council last week and asked for Additional Appropriations of about $180,000.00 and was denied to do these type projects. I think we now are looking at other financial sources that we may be able to tap into and if we can do that, we no longer have to take this band-aid approach. We can do a comprehensive study of the entire County and have a comprehensive plan whereby we can eliminate these types of drainage problems and I think thatís what we want to do. I would just like to see you go ahead and blow the dust off of that 2002 study and take a look at that and see how that can fit in with what youíre presently doing for this area and then when you come back with recommendations maybe you can come back with some recommendations in regards to that also. Our attorney has been requested to start looking at the legal aspect of pursing other financial sources to accomplish what we would like to set out to do.
Mr. Nodarse: As I remember the 2002 study was actually some budget still available that we can use if thatís acceptable to do any additional work on that.
Don Williams:† You just have to figure out the cost of living increases and material increases if I remember that study correctly.
Mr. Nodarse:† Yes, I think we can incorporate that, that would be fine.
Don Williams:† Come on up sir, and if you would please state your name and address. No you need to come to the microphone so that we can have it on record.
Norm Diehl:† My name is Norm Diehl and Iím president of the Ivy Glenn home owner association. I read Henryís (Nodarse) report and I want to know if he did a preliminary of what you are planning to do through Lochmeuller?† One thing I noticed as I got a copy of it is that one of the issues was the Mansfield Pond collection pond was inadequate, the pond at Mansfield which is directly east of us in a new subdivision has 450 homes in there I believe, they put a pond in thatís not much more than a fishing pond, itís not deep and the culvert empties into our pond, their pond is higher than ours, empties into ours which is the east pit on the east side of 164 and our overflow going under 164 to the west pit is higher than our streets. So, there is no chance of that going in that overflow pipe to go into the highway and I wonder if this is considered, did you do any shooting of the elevations on that?
Mr. Nodarse:† No, we havenít reallyÖ(inaudible)
Mr. Diehl: Our problem, I donít think our water is ever reaching the Williams Ditch because the elevation of that pipe it canít hardly get up to that pipe before it goes over the street and we had one heck of a mess last night. As a footnote prior to Sterchi building that subdivision over there we had inches and inches and inches of rain we got 31 homes in our subdivision and we hadÖIím sure I can go down to Paducah and find we had hundred year floods one after the other and never overflowed the streets, currently and as a result of the rain last night the bank of the pond is badly eroding. Itís reduced from probably 6-8 feet to about 4-foot and the next thing that is going to go is the street, itís going to cave in. We need drastic help on this, soon or the street is just going to start caving in there too. But the problem that I see and Iím not an engineer and I donít propose to be an engineer, but the water from Sterchiís subdivision how they ever emptied into our subdivision, I donít know, but if you could see the water coming out of the street drain that is going into the lake, its going very very slow, but the water coming out of that culvert and their overflow from that lake for their pond at Mansfield it is whitewater. It looks like a waterfall coming out of there, thousands of gallons of water coming out of there and it is filling that thing up in a hurry. The last couple of times that Iíve checked it and check the rain report and they said 3 Ĺ inches of rain not too long ago we didnít get any water that time, but we get 4-inches of rain and it breaks our backs. It is really sad that the water doesnít flow as it is intended to do under 164 into that west pit into Williams Ditch and out towards the river, but itís not going any further that us, we are at the tail end in a valley there and it is not getting up and going into the west ditch. Thank you, Gentlemen. Weíve got a serious problem.
The Board thanked Mr. Diehl.
Don Williams:† †And we do understand.
Mr. Nodarse:† The proposal does say quote ď it appears to be inadequateĒ I canít make the statement that itís inadequate without actually analyzing it, but just based on the performance and the size, but it will be determined in the study and in fact the pond itself may be adequate if it was just by itself and Mansfield was by itself, but you tie that into three other subdivisions and that causes a problem and I donít think thatís been analyzed.
Thatís one of the things that we have proposed to do.
Reggie Haire:† My name
is Reggie Haire and I live on
Don Williams:† I donít believe so, I believe that the one in Mansfield was proposed to be a fifty year flood that is our standard now, the one there in back of Ivy Glenn, Iíve been over there many times and it sure seems a lot bigger than a twenty five to me, but I mean it may have been a minimum and they may have built it bigger because it handles a lot of water thatís for sure.
Reggie Haire:† Well, thatís my question and I donít know how to do the math on that or if thatís even legal to do something like that. I know from the little bit Iíve read that the ponds have to have water go in and it also has to have exit and so Iím sure they have to have an exit somewhere, but Iím just wondering if the size of that exit that they have and the size of our pond if weíre not figuring in on their flood plan. My second question is, or did you have anything on that, am I way off?
Mr. Nodarse:† No, the Ivy Glenn retention pond, I donít know the whole history but I believe that pond was a borrow pit for I-64 construction. So just looking at the two ponds it may not be comparing apples and apples, Iím not defending anyone Iím just trying to give you some history on the ponds. A borrow pit is used by highway contractors to dig out dirt with no conception or even interest in how much water it is going to store. When was Ivy Glenn built, about the 90ís.? the pond was built probably about 4-5 years before the subdivision was built, so that means that borrow pit was just dug out big enough to take the dirt they needed and theyíll just dig it as big as it has to be and then it becomes a convenient facility for someone wanting to develop a subdivision because they can use that pond that someone else dug. I may be that itís oversized or undersized and the other pond is undersized but why everything has to be evaluated on the computer to see what happens. There is really a number of scenarios that can happen there, three ponds and pipes in-between and I canít say anything about the performance of them until we do the study.
Reggie Haire:† I think before Mansfield Subdivision, you know, obviously that was our wetlands over there, our pond didnít overflow because that water would have collected over there and its not there anymore, but my question is still, even though that pond was dug for a different purpose, it was still approved for the purpose that we use it for, was it not?
Don Williams:† Yes, I Ďm sure it was, I wasnít---we werenít around then, but Iím sure it was, but whoeverÖ..
Carl Conner:† But, if it was greater than the minimum requirement, then I would assume that there wouldnít have been any problem in approving your retention or I think of it as a retention pond that you have there today. So it could very well, the capacity could be much larger than would be required.
Reggie Haire:† Well,
it seems that way to all of us that live there but weíre wondering now that if
itís over capacity why is it over flowing so much in the last year? I have
another question and it concerns us I guess and Iíll just say it, it kind of
concerns me when I see this growing neighborhood over there and weíre trying to
figure out what weíre going to do and doing our surveyís and itís kind of
grinding on and I really appreciate hiring these people to do the survey but
theyíre building houses and building houses. We see trucks across that lake and
one thing that we might, I might think was reasonable would be for them to dig
another lake, a larger lake somewhere, but they are going to be full of houses
and wonít be able to and that is my concern. What would be the remedy when
Carl Conner:† I donít know if Iím qualified to answer this or not but to begin with I think that what we need to do and I donít know if itís been done yet or not and if it hasnít I would ask that it be done, is first to determine whether or not the retention pond that was approved for that subdivision was built according to the specifications that we approved. If thatís the case then I think that our next step has to be because of the continual building going on there, we have to go back and look at possibly requiring the one that is presently there to possibly be redesigned or re-engineered for purposes of holding the additional water because I think you bring up a very good point. And it may very well be that it meets specifications of 200 homes however maybe there are 350 that it doesnít meet and thatís the first thing that we have to determine, so I think that you bring out a very good point.
Don Williams:† I think weíre all in agreement, itís just documenting it and getting it corrected, thatís why we got BLA involved to determine that and get it done.
Reggie Haire:† We all appreciate that very much, we think its going in the right direction.
Don Williams:† We are committed to resolve this and Iím quite sure that it will be resolved as quickly as you want, but it is going to be resolved.
Reggie Haire:† Yesterday just puts everybody on edge just a little bit, when it rains like that.
Carl Conner:† And your area and no disrespect, your neighborhoods are not the only ones that we have drainage problems in. Weíre dealing with a number of these, I mean weíre dealing with one over on Lincoln Avenue and Owens Drive and that is why weíre looking at sources of funding where we can do a County wide comprehensive plan and actually put it into place because as I said we do not have the financial abilities to address these needs from the routine sources which would be the general fund. Like I said Jim went the other day to get additional funding and he was denied, I think he was asking for $150,000.00 or $180,000.00 so we have to figure out some other way to get the work done and for example for this study to be perfectly frank with you today, earlier today we didnít have the money to pay for it, but as we sit here now we do have the money to pay for it because between the Surveyorís Office and the County Commissionerís Office we have worked out some kind of financing. Iím not saying that to discredit the County Council, I mean their backs are against the wall and they just absolutely do not have the additional funding that we need, so itís left up to us and I think that this is probably proper terminology, weíve just got to come up with creative thinking and creative ways to get things done.
Reggie Haire:† I guess weíre concerned that itís costing you more to remedy something that you might be able to prevent someone from exacerbating right now and more building with inadequate drainage. So thatís our question, is the drainage adequate or is it inadequate, it looks inadequate and I think you very much for your time.
Carl Conner: We really appreciate your input.
Don Williams:† Thank you, is there anyone else, Sir, you had your hand up. Please come and address the Board.
Mike Fisher:† Mike
Fisher, I live in Colonial Hills Subdivision,
Carl Conner:† Thatís a major problem for the entire County.
Mike Fisher: Actually, I proposed that back in 1989 to a different Commission and they said oh, thereís no way.
Don Williams:† And it would have been a lot cheaper back then.
Mike Fisher: One of the questions that I had on this is, I did review the study and the part that concerns Colonial Hills and you may have addressed this with directing this to the Ohio River, but I wanted to make sure that they are going to look 5-10 years in the future because we still have open fields in that area. The south side of Kenosha Hills is ripe for development and that rain is going to come right down on top of us. Iíve got some pictures that some people took that we experienced yesterday, we had several homes that had flooding and this is not the first time this year that homes have been flooded, some have been flooded 2-3 times so we have a very immediate problem, maybe even an emergency problem almost. Originally Colonial Hills was the first one out there 30 years ago and the ditch we have that goes through our subdivision, Williams Ditch was designed only for our subdivision, Kenosha Hills was added to it, Fall Creek the way it appears was added to it just by default, not by any type of plan. Thereís noÖ.the water that comes to us as far as we can tell there is no retention pond that they have that helps protect us whatsoever. Iím not sure they even have a ditch that comes over to us, it just flows across yards into our ditch and weíve noticed a huge difference since they have been developed. (he gave pictures to the Board) These were just taken yesterday evening. I think from our standpoint we need some short term action which Jim is working on and we need the long term action which BLA is working on as well. But we really need some relief from this right away. Last year it was urgent and now itís past urgent and if there is anything that we can do to help and try to help the County Council find money, Iím sure thereís a number of people that would be glad to. Thereís several people from Colonial Hills that are here today and Iím sure weíd all be willing to try and support that effort.
Don Williams:† Iíd take them along next time you go to Council, Jim. (laughter) Thank you,. Sir.
Carl Conner:† I think that Jim does have the financial arrangements worked out for the ongoingÖ..I donít know if youíre aware of that.
Somebody mentioned reverse flow, I heard somebody comment yesterday that
they were at the bridge in
Henry Nodarse:† It will be in the report.
Reggie Haire:† Originally they only put one pipe under there and I helped get the second one, but IÖ.it still wasnít quite adequate.
Carl Conner:† We may need for you to help us get the 3rd and 4th ones cause weíre dealing with the State.
Reggie Haire:† Venita Becker, thatís all I can say, she was a great help. Thank You, thatís all I have.
Carl Conner:† Jim, is that contractor on schedule to continue to be there immediately?
Jim Niemeyer: Hopefully, weíll get there tomorrow, heís had machine problems.
Reggie Haire:† What about the short term work through our particular subdivision? We had problems this summer with standing water and mosquitoes, the water doesnít drain. Jim found in his elevations that it high, low High, low, High low.
Jim Niemeyer: We can, after the first thing I want to do and I said this several times before itís finished, grinding that out west of Colonial Hills and weíre ready to start. He was going to try and get his machine in today and Iím not sure exactly what his schedule is but it would be within a day or so cause heís got a few little jobs he needs to finish. Then so far as the drainage behind your place is I hope Iím not embarrassed but I donít think it will be quite as bad as I thought it would be.
Reggie Haire: You havenít seen the pictures.
Jim Niemeyer:† I know but a lot of itís got to get past the west side of that road going through all that ditch thatís grown up and then Iím working on running elevations on that ditch all the way up to Deaconess to see what our profiles going to be. Iím also running some samples on the bottom to determine how thick the sediment is and itís probably a foot to a foot and a half thick. But we want toÖ..
Reggie Haire: If you could take that out that would probably help considerably.
Jim Niemeyer:† We need to make it run faster and there is a lot of growth in the bottom of it that will slow it down. It is also difficult to work in there because we have very little space to work in as so much of that original right-of-way was given up. Itís normally 75-foot to top of bank and some of that is going to be 25-feet or less, so weíre going to have a time with that and weíre going to have to haul 4,000 feet of ditch out as we remove the sedimentÖÖÖ
Reggie Haire:† Youíre talking about from the west end out?
Jim Niemeyer: Yes, to haul it out of there and Iíve been to Vanderburgh County Surveyorís Office and they have $11,000.00 in that account because this is a joint thing between Vanderburgh County and Warrick County and they have promised me $11,000.00 or all that they have in their account which we can apply to the cost of that. There are some other factors that we will have to take care of, which I am working on and Mr. Zengler is aware of that, so as soon as all that comes together we can begin.
Reggie Haire:† Okay, the part behind that goes through our subdivision, the silt is built up in that also from where it was originally.
Jim Niemeyer: We wonít use a large excavator in there as we have to be very careful of the utilities as some of them are just a few inches below the ground and we have to work all that out. So from that aspect it wonít be very easy, but we wonít have to remove large amounts of material out there I donít think.
Reggie Haire: Well, like I said last year, Iím not sure if you need to take it out of the bottom or build it up on the side, either way will help. Both is best.
Jim Niemeyer:† Itís complicated from the fact that there is a sewer system on each side of that and utilities that go back and forth across there. We may have to ask the neighbors to hold it up while we go under it.† (laughter)
Reggie Haire:† But please we need some short term help as well.
Harold Harkins:† Iím Harold Harkins, Ivy Glenn Subdivision, Iíve listened to all the reports today and Iím not sure I understand what youíre going to do, but I hope whatever it is you get on the ball and get it done soon because we are in trouble out there for sure. Last night before it got dark one of our neighbors took a bunch of pictures I would like for you to look at as they are really good and they really show what happened last night.
Don Williams:† Can we keep those? Weíll give them to the Surveyor.
Harold Harkins:† Mr. Niemeyer has been really helpful so far but it seems like itís just dragging. Weíre just sitting there and every time it starts raining, we look up and wonder if youíre going to make it through without getting flooded out completely. Whatever you can do we would appreciate it.
Board:† Thank You
Sean Suggs: My name is Sean Suggs 4011 Frame Road and first of all I appreciate you having us here this evening and your position is a tough position because of the whole southern Indiana area was hit pretty hard last night, so I really appreciate you having us give an opportunity to voice our opinion and our concerns. Iíve been in this area probably for about 6-8 months and this incident that happened yesterday is not new to our subdivision. Iím in Woodstone Manor right on the corner of Frame and I guess 66. If we get a Ĺ inch of rain that whole entire bottom basin is flooded and Iíll show you this picture here while I talk to you.
Carl Conner:† Do you live in the cul-de-sac.
Mr. Suggs:† Yes, so basically as that picture shows the water that comes down it really doesnít have anywhere to go, thereís a large drainage system thatís by the Lloyd expressway but the water is standing, it is supposed to travel past the highway and actually go up toward Pigeon Creek but there is no room for it to go anywhere, it just stands and sits there which floods our subdivision. So, yesterday was obviously an exaggeration of it but typically if we get a Ĺ inch itís the same. Iíve talked to this gentleman over here who is a good gentleman, heís gave us some good advise and opinions on what we should do, but again I wanted to voice our concern tonight because again if we have a Ĺ inch weíre going to be flooded in that area. The nursing home which is right across the street for the first time Iíd seen it with water close to the door but an ambulance couldnít even get in there yesterday. So our concern is not just our homes being flooded but there could be some serious injury and someone couldnít get medical care. I do have a couple of questions and opinion, this gentleman over here that came I really appreciate it, Iím shocked that a professional engineer wouldnít have elevations done thatís surprising, but† Iím sure heís going to work on that. Iím very very curious previously how we approve subdivisions and going forward how we approve subdivisions. I have even personally thought about having a subdivision of my own, buying land and doing that but I wonder if weíre getting so caught up into approving and not doing the critical analysis on the subdivision and how it impacts others. I donít know if thatís a part of this.
Jim Niemeyer:† Thatís precisely what Henry is doing on his study.
Mr. Suggs:† Okay, so thatís what heís going to study, so he gave us a study 5 years ago what happened to it?
Jim Niemeyer:† Sitting on a shelf for lack of funds.
Mr. Suggs:† Okay, so whatís going to change if he does another one?
If I may address that and if anybody else would like to make a comment,
please feel free to jump in here. WhatÖ.first Iíd like to ask you, are you a
Mr. Suggs:† I wish
Carl Conner:† I was just going to tell you, weíre going to get you Saturday (laughter)
But as I said earlier, we have restraints that are put on us and one of the major restraints that we have are financial restraints and we have to be creative like earlier today we had that project that BLA was working on and the project on Colonial Hills and we had absolutely no way to pay for the services, after lunch today I can sit here and tell you that now we have ways to pay for that and I think that is because it is simply due to the fact that we as a Board and the Surveyorís Office is trying to be more creative in regards to looking at other sources of funding just not going to the County Council saying I need $180,000.00 can you give me $180,000.00 and letting them say no, We donít† have any money in the general fund and we come back and say well, we canít do these projects. As I said earlier we have instructed our Attorney to start looking at the legal aspect of a number of other sources that may by out there for financing. I can assure you and the other people that are here that the present County Surveyor and the present Board that sits here who are also the County Commissioners, weíre just not going to take a report and go to the County Council and say I need 5 million dollars because if you look at doing a comprehensive plan it will probably take us at least 5 million dollars and we have got to stop doing the band-aid thing and take a look at this in its entirety and we have to fix it. That is why we are trying to be creative from the standpoint at looking at other sources. That is the best I can tell you right now.
Mr. Suggs: Okay, can you give us an example or this gentleman here, if youíre going to do a comprehensive study, how long does that take and realistically implementation? If you had to guess? Countywide study.
Carl Conner:† Heís going to be doing a County wide study but at the same time these issues are going to be addressed immediately. These are his priorities right now. One of our priorities also is as Don explained is looking at a County wide comprehensive study and taking a part of that 2002 study that was given to us that basically says our water is flowing in the wrong direction in this County. It has to be flowing to the river instead of away from the river.
Mr. Suggs: Yes, I think my subdivision is a prime example that it has to go almost 4 miles to Pigeon Creek.
Don Williams:† Right and then probably another 20 before it gets to the river.
Carl Conner: Youíre probably looking at 27 miles that that water is going before it probably hits the river. But the only thing I can tell you as a member I think weíre as a Board, weíre all committed, weíre going to look for ways to do that and if we had to do time frames. I would say that probably if everything would go well and the options that weíre looking at, if they can materialize from a legal perspective, youíll probably see a start of a major program in this County in the year 2007. This over here, we wonít address before 2007 but thatís the best I can tell you right now. Sorry thatís all I can tell you.
Mr. Suggs: The issue that I brought up about our subdivision from a short term, is there anything that we can do?
Carl Conner:† I
think thatÖwe have to look at it but if you live down in the cul-de-sac and
basically the water is pooling down there, it may very well be a problem that
can be taken care of by adding in the road Right-of-Way some additional
drainage, but now I donít know that for a fact. Weíre going to have to go out
there and look at it and have to have the
Mr. Suggs: Thatís all right, thatís what weíre here for and get your Notre Dame shirt out for Saturday.
Don Williams:† We have about 3 minutes left so please keep it short, we understand that we had rainÖÖ
Helen Newton: Mr. President of the Drainage Board perhaps
Iíll just hand these to you and we might be able to know what Iím talking
about. Iíve been here before, Iím Helen Newton and I live at
But after those culverts were installed, I was assured that would take care of our problem. There it says possibly we would have flooding again. I was assured by Mr. Pike that the culverts that was placed there were oversized for future. The future is here, since the two developments, the Julian Subdivision and the extension of the Gourley Place Subdivision, I have the same problem now. I have a basin behind us that brings the mud and water into our backyard and you can see that in the pictures into my garage. When it flows on out what it leaves is this to clean up. My husband and I drove back to the edge of the Julian Subdivision yesterday after the water had receded, the water was coming out and it left a path, it came out of the basin that was there in the northwest corner of that subdivision. It did not come over the ditch banks. Some of it did, yes, but not that. My husband and I came up here before those subdivisions were started and we pleaded, I guess you could say to please make sure that those holding ponds, catch basins, lakes whatever you want to call them were large enough. They are not working. There is a dry catch basin in Mrs. Gourleyís Subdivision the extension, there is one that there is water always in, after a rain, they are just overflowed lakes. The last two rains and I know and realize that was an awful rain yesterday, but two months ago we had a rain like that. It wasnít like that, it came faster, I had one of the engineers, not the engineer, but a County highwayman came to my house and I asked him to come over there. You had just installed the large concrete culvert under Coal Mine Road that is there by the Julian Subdivision on Coal Mine Road, I found him there checking to see how the water was coming through there and yes, it was coming through there all right, but get down to my house, he calledÖÖhe stood on my patio, the water was getting ready to come up on the patio and go in the house, he called the highway department, do you have sandbags? Weíre going to have a terrible terrible problem here if it doesnít stop raining. Iím not against these developments, but anything that is put in that 400 acre watershed above us, we not only get it, Sandals across the road, Tanglewood they get it too. Everything in that 400 acre watershed somehow comes down those two ditches and could I ask you, is there anything changed over on Hwy 62 where the water goes under the road there on Hwy 62 where they are putting in the new highway? I mean is there anything different there that would create a problem? Or have they made it better?
Don Williams:† Iím not sure what the state has done as far as drainage, butÖÖ
Mrs. Newton: But I do know that they were cleaningÖ.the County cleanedÖ.Gardner-Webb is right beside me, now what itís called on down I donít know but I do know it was cleaned on down that way here a few years back and I do believe it helped because the water was really flowing good, but then after we have two large subdivisions going in upstream from us there is more water and everyone knows what water does. Especially when itís falling on concrete drives and rooftops, it runs faster and there is more of it. I have been there for thirty years and I couldnít sell my house. Perhaps I should have sold my house after you put the two big culverts in before the two large subdivisions were built.
Don Williams:† When were those culverts put in, Iím trying to remember.
Mrs. Newton, I believe it was 98, sir. But itís not only what is coming down the ditch, it is also what is coming out of retaining ponds, catch basins, whatever the names are on the northwest corner of the Julian Subdivision and I get the mud. But of course the subdivision is already there, the engineers laid it out and the surveyor whatever it was approved so I guess Iím just at the mercy of it because every time there is a subdivision put in that watershed it will come by my house or through Tanglewood. I donít know if youíve ever been down there or not.
Don Williams:† Iíve never been to your house but Iíve been to Tanglewood more than once.
Mrs. Newton:† Youíve never been to my house, Could I call you?
Don Williams:† †Carl lives closer††† (laughter)
Carl Conner:† Just give me your address and Iíll come out and see you, you donít even have to call me. I think basically you have a similar issue to a lot of issues that we have in the entire County. We are trying to address those issues, maybe there is something we can do in the interim to help you out, however, in the long range plan we can take care of these problems. Itís like someone said in here, we donít want any short fixes, we want to look 5-10 years down the road, thatís what we have to do. There is going to continue to be unless the housing market goes bust, there is going to be continue growth continue development with the County and we have to work with those developers at the same time we have to be aware of the problems that can be created to protect people such as yourself and other people here and I think that over the last and I can only relate to 5 years cause I have been in office for 5 years, but I think that when you look at the last five years this Board, the Surveyorís Office we have attempted to tighten up and hold builders and developers more accountable in regards to water issues and Iím not saying that theyíre not cooperative, Iím just saying that we have had to tighten up our regulations. I mean we just had a comprehensive building plan and it took them about a year, we had input from a number of people and the public to put that together, we have expanded the building inspectorís office. We have just done a number of things and weíre not saying that weíve done everything, we need to continue to address these issues and not try to resolve them but resolve them but it takes time. We have as I said earlier, we have restraints on ourselves, not only financial but time restraints and we have manpower restraints and I know that doesnít help you a bit, but Iíll come out there and take a look at that and Iíll bring Jim along with me, Iíll bring the county engineer along with me and weíll look to see what we can possibly do in an interim basis to give you some relief out there. Itís like a land fill, I donít want a land fill in Ohio township and Iím not going to support a landfill over in Elberfeld thatís just the same way here, I donít think thereís anybody on this Board going to sit idly by and not attempt to help you out because we wouldnít want this water in our backyard, or in our basements or garages.
Mrs. Newton: That is why I am here today, Iím still pleading.
Carl Conner:† I canít tell you that we have a magic wand and that itís going to be taken care of but we do have people on staff that can come out and take a look at it and weíll see what we can do in an expeditious manor to give you hopefully some type of temporary relief until we can do something in the long term.
Mrs. Newton: I donít think there is anything that can be done now with the existing problem unless there is more retention ponds put in or basins or catch basins and Iím not talking about these wetlands that look like lakes, lakes fill up.
Carl Conner: Weíll be there making a visit and I assume that weíre going to have donuts and coffee and all that stuff.† (laughter)
Mrs. Newton: Well, you might even go for a boat ride if you come, but all jokes aside I appreciate you all listening today and I have been here numerous times, in fact, Iím sure my face is familiar.
Don Williams:† We need to go ahead as we have another meeting pending. We are aware we have had a lot of rain and that there are a lot of problems. We are trying to take care of it.
Mr. Armorz:† I am Bernard Amorz and I live in Woodstone Estates and you know we had water. This morning we went to the office of Mr. Niemeyer as we are concerned about the safety as the water goes under Lloyd, we follow where the water goes and the ditch is full of trash, trees etc and Mr. Niemeyer sort of thinks that if we could clean that part for about a mile, mile and a half would solve partially some of the problem that we have in that subdivision. Maybe helping you would be the fact that we are willing to at least economically. But we do need somebody to go make a budget and let us know how much it will cost. I have spoken personally to Old National Bank, the nursing home and some of the neighbors and they seem to be willing to help and in a years time the patient will be dead, so if we can help sooner than that we would be greatfull.
Carl Conner: Sir, where do you live in that subdivision?
Mr. Armorz: In the cul-de-sac. And again the problem as we
see it is that water comes from uphill to
Jim Niemeyer:† Heís talking about Edwards Ditch which runs along both sides of 66 from Frame Road to (inaudible) and then goes northwest and crosses Libbert Road on up and then eventually up to Weinsheimer Ditch west of Chandler, itís about 5 miles.
Mr. Armorz: So if you would allow us to talk to him and make some sort of budget then we could get to work and we would be relatively independent from the constraints of your budget. It doesnít mean I want to pay, butÖÖ
Don Williams:† We appreciate your heart on that, we donít get too many offers like that.
Carl Conner: We appreciate your offer, my suggestion would be to let us go out there first and take a look at that and see what can be done, if anything can be done. I know that a lot of these water problems, for example where your at appear to be major and they are major problems for people who live in those areas. But to resolve them, it may only be minor that maybe itís just putting in some additional drains in that cul-de-sac or something. But let us go out there and take a look andÖ..
Mr. Armorz:† If we can get a date in which we can meet over there, Iím serious. I guess we can arrange that after the meeting.
Carl Conner:† Well, you gave us your name and business card that would be helpful with your numbers on it. Thank you.
Don Williams: Do you have anything else. We need to adjourn, do I have a motion?
Carl Conner: Move that we adjourn, 2nd by Don Williams. Both voted aye Motion carried 2-0. Meeting adjourned.