OCTOBER 11, 2006

107 W. Locust Street Suite 303

Boonville, Indiana 47601







The Warrick County Drainage Board met in regular session with President Don Williams presiding, also in attendance were Phillip H Baxter, Vice-President; Carl Jay Conner, Secretary; Jim Niemeyer, Surveyor and David K. Zengler, Attorney for Board.

Also attending was Sean M. Owen, Deputy Surveyor.


Minutes were recorded and transcribed by Cheryl D. Embry.


Audience attendance was Doug McDonald, Sue Harkins, Harold Harkins, Paul Halter, Wileen Halter, Harry Lukens, Jack Faber and Laura Tanner.







Don Williams:Warrick County Drainage Board October 11, 2006 come to order, first order of business is the approval of minutes. Have you gentlemen had a chance to look over the minutes?


Phil Baxter:Yes


Carl Conner: Yes, I would move that we approve the minutes for September 13, 2006 and September 27, 2006 as presented.


Phil Baxter seconded the motion, all members voted aye, motion carried 3-0.





Don Williams:The next item is Drainage Plan Approval of Kolley Subdivision Phase 3. If you would sir state your name and who you represent?


Doug McDonald: My name is Doug McDonald, Iím the land surveyor and engineer for Mr. Kolley on his subdivision and basically weíre requesting a waiver because itís in old spoiled ground and there is a strip pit on it and thereís really not a whole lot of run-off that would come off of this area.


Don Williams:Are all the lots over 2 Ĺ acres?


Doug McDonald:Yes sir


Mr. Williams asked if there was any discussion and then asked if Mr. Kolley would like to say anything, then asked the will of the Board.


Phil Baxter:I move we approve the drainage plan for Kolley Subdivision Phase 3,

Seconded by Carl Conner, all members voted aye. Motion carried 3-0.






Ms. Halter:††† Thatís correct, Kevin wasnít able to obtain the projector from work, what I wanted to ask if you had a chance and I trust that you took the opportunity to watch the video that was on the CD that we gave you two weeks ago.


Don Williams:The slide show, Yes I did.


Ms. Halter: In that case then I will defer then to later in the program as I understand that Mr. Niemeyer will be addressing our situation and will we at that time if we have any comments or questions of him can we do that later in the meeting?


Don Williams: Absolutely, you can come talk to us anytime you like. Please state your name for the record, please.


Wileen Halter: 4655 Clint Circle, Newburgh., thanks.


Jim Niemeyer:The next one is Stonegate Subdivision, Mr. Lukens.


Harry Lukens:My name is Harry Lukens, I live at 4566 Stonegate Drive in Newburgh. For the past several years, weíve had a problem with the flooding at the end of Stonegate Drive, let me orient you, it is one block off of Bell Road at the intersection of Lincoln and bell Road if you continued South on Bell Road one block that is Stonegate Drive. It is at the end of Stonegate Drive that most of the houses were destroyed in the tornado. I prepared some pictures that I would like to give you, if you would to explain what our problem is.


Don Williams:Are you going to want those pictures back?


Mr. Lukens:No. The first picture is looking south on Stonegate Drive and you can Ö..

(Mr. Lukens was not audible as he had walked away from the microphone)

Mr. Williams asked Mr. Lukens to please return to the microphone so that his presentation could be recorded in the minutes.


Mr. Lukens: All right, if you will note that the street rises to the South and the only drainage for that entire street is two drains in front of our home and across the street, the property owned by the Fitzsimmons and it was not just the deluge that we had on the 12th, this has been going on for a couple of years, every timewe have a very hard rain, an inch even ĺ of an inch we flood in front of our house to the point where the water comes up into our garage. (he presented a picture of his home to the Board) This is a picture of our home and you can see where I left the garage door open and there are many occasions where the water has come into the garage, we have not had a problem yet with water coming into the house. Those two drains are just not adequate to take off the water that comes flowing down and to make it worse during the construction of those new houses it turned into mud. Here is a picture of our neighbor to our right as you face the house, he has the same problem but not as severe as ours. Here is a picture of the curb on Stonegate Drive that leads into Bell Road and the water will finally go into Bell Road, it gets that deep. Now to complicate it behind my property is a fairly large ditch and in addition to the water coming onto our property from the street the ditch will overflow to the point where it inundates our back yard, we have had instances where we couldnít even get out of our house because the water surrounded our house. When I inquired about the responsibility for the maintenance of the ditch, Iíve never got a clear answer and I would respectfully solicit your suggestions or your help to try to alleviate this problem.


Don Williams:I will just simply state what this Board is responsible for and that is the Legal Drains, legally and I guess in the next few months probably with MS4 in the institution of a Board of Storm Water that will change. But, right now that ditch is the responsibility of the property owners, unless we were to make it a legal drain and if we make it a legal drain that gives the County, if itís a true legal drain 75-feet easement on both sides of the ditch and most people in residential areas donít want that cause it devalues the property to be quite honest with you. Now, since the home is already there if we should make that sometime in the future drain we could make it what is called an Urban Drain which is only 30-feet which is quite a bit of difference but right now our attorney can tell me if Iím in error there, but I think thatísÖ.


David Zengler: Thatís basically true, I guess with an Urban Drain we could go down to 25-foot on each side, but thatís still sort of the same problem.


Don Williams:We can relax that and we are looking at drainage County wide, weíre looking at a entire drainage plan because over the years and I guess weíre really getting tired of fixing previous administrations problems and we spend a lot of time doing that and weíre having a complete drainage plan but the main emphasis is going to be on the southern part of the County, like I said our water flows the wrong direction. Youíre a mile and a half away from the river but yet your water flows over 20-miles to get to the river, actually over 25 miles and so weíre looking at changing the actual direction of the water flow and I guess our attorney will have some input for us later on that.


Mr. Lukens: I anticipated that and I think Iíve talked to a few of my neighbors and I think weíre going to get together and get that ditch cleaned up and rip-rapped andÖ.


Don Williams:I donít know what the plat says on that particular area, but Iím quite sure itís the property owners or if you have aHome Owners Association it would fall to them.


Mr. Lukens:I think thatís what weíll probably do as far as the ditch is concerned and I anticipated that response.


Don Williams:And the drainage down the road, we have been and Iíll just give this to everybody so that everybody will know, but we have what is called an unfunded mandate from the state concerning water quality not quantity and weíre being basically required to do that and because of that weíre forming a Board of Storm Water Management and basically it will be a County wide initiative and because of the funding for that there will be funds probably weíll do like we do our roads on a priority basis start taking care of all these drainage problems and it may not beÖ.weíre looking at the next couple of years one by one as we have the funding to do it. Right now we donít have anything in place to take care of anything but legal drains.


Carl Conner:I would like to make a suggestion, in fact Iíll put it in the form of a motion. I think that probably the drainage in the street that problem we may be able to address and resolve for you and I would make a motion that we defer this to the County Highway Department and the County Engineer and have the County Engineer and the highway department go out and check the drainage but also to determine whether or not the drains are insufficient size or number and if they are not we can probably address that issue as they are in road Right-of-Way.


Don Williams:What he is saying there, Sir, this Board wonít address that issue but the County Commissioners will which is the three of us minus him (Zengler). Itís just a fine line there but two different legal entities.


Carl Conner:So, basically itís going to be addressed.


Don Williams:The Commissioners can do that, this Board is very restricted in what it can and cannot do. Most people think that if they have drainage problems this is the Board to come to, but it really isnít, itís probably the Commissioners is the place to go.


Carl Conner: And I would ask Jim to follow up with the County Engineer and the County Highway Departments and report back to us in regards to what the situation is and what the solutions are that we can pursue to take care of the water in the street.


Don Williams:Okay, let me see if I can restate your motion. Mr. Conner has made a motion that we have the Highway Engineer and the Highway Department to go out and investigate the road drainage out there in Stonegate Subdivision, did I state that right and coordinate that with our County Surveyor, do I have a second on that motion?


Phil Baxter: Yes, if I can add one thing to it. I would like to ask them to check and may be such a thing to see if they could water blast those sewers out there, Iím sure theyíve got mud and stuff in them and that may take care of it.


Jim Niemeyer: There is a lot of silt that flowed down the hill in all this flooding that also flooded the street with mud, so Iím sure it did get in the drains.


Don Williams:†† I have a motion and a second and Commissioner Baxter asked that the water blasting of those drains be investigated to see if they are clogged as that might clear them up. All in favor say aye.All members voted aye. Motion carried 3-0.


Carl Conner:I have one other request of Jim. Jim, you have I think done a very good job in putting together a schedule of all these projects and what is being transpired and where we are from the standpoint of what the status if and I would ask that you add this one to the list also.


Mr. Lukens: Gentlemen, as a former office holder in Vanderburgh County, I want to thank you for your service. Thank you very much.


Carl Conner: We try to do what we can do and if we canít do it, we just canít do it.


Don Williams:†† What we would really like to have is about 10 million dollars at the disposal of this Board. That would take care of about everything we need to take care of.




Don Williams:Green Springs Valley, is there someone here to represent that issue?

Please state your name and address.


Jack Faber:My name is Jack Faber, Iím here with some other of our neighbors. I live at 8199 N. Birch Drive in the Green Springs neighborhood, I guess itís number 4. This is the first time Iíve come to a Drainage Board meeting and Iím here because of other neighbors coming to talk to this Board about the flooding weíve had in our neighborhood. The flooding has got to be such a situation that weíve taken it upon ourselves to form our own Homeowners Association. Weíre 170 residences, thatís 340 taxpayers and 340 voters and we are joining together to solve this problem but also we see it as a positive step. If this was the thing that we needed, this flooding to join us as a neighborhood to create other goals or to solve other goals this was a positive thing but this is one problem that is at the top of our list as solving. Basically, what I have done is Iíve put together from talking to everybody in our neighborhood and walking through the neighborhood during the flooding the exact extentÖ.well, itís a preliminary account of all the residents that have been affected by the flood and all the residences are in red. Youíll see there is three stars here, when we get any amount of rain that adds up these three to four places become impassable. I came back from Indianapolis and I had to drive through about 8-10 inches of water here on Birch Drive, This is the Schnucks and this is Bell and Outer Lincoln. I stopped by a school bus who could not get their kids home that evening because it was impassable here. I went out and drove through this water again came all the way around and tried to get through here (pointing on his picture board) it was impassable here, I ended up driving through it, so I guess I did go through it, but I wasnít happy about it and this was impossible to get through (?). What this shows is from looking at the water how itís focusing all into this area and Iím sure from talking to people from past meetings, weíve got this ditch that runs right through here and exits north out of our neighborhood and whatís happening and what weíve been told and what weíre seeing is itís nothingÖ.this flooding is not being caused by our ditches being clogged. Weíve looked at them, weíve walked them and our Home Owners Association are going to work in it still to get owners to clean it out even more but it really has to do with the property thatís north of us. Itís this ditch, itís the new apartment area here, itís the condoís and specifically also this entire ditch behind Schnucks and Iím not an engineer nor a surveyor but just by looking at them it is pretty obvious that the problem is not with our property, the problem is whatís happening where our water needs to go. What weíre asking this Board as a Home Owners Association and what Iím asking as delegates to be on the Board of this is weíd like to go to our next neighborhood meeting and be able to give some answers and whether itís too soon to get some for our next meeting but at least for the next one, we have some requests that we would like to have looked at by your Board and Iíll just list them. The first one is we would like to know what the violations are that are causing this flooding in our neighborhood and we call them violations because this didnít occur before the development happened over the last year, so there has to be some kind of drainage issue thatís not being addressed by these new buildings that are being where our water needs to go.


Don Williams:Mr. Faber, do you have those in writing by chance other than the copy you have?


Mr. Faber:I have just this copy but I can leave it, I can do whatever you want with it.


Don Williams:If you could leave it when you get done and maybe Cheryl you can copy it for us real quick as that would save us a lot of writing.


Mr. Faber: The next step would be that we would like to be able to report to our home owners is that once these violations are understood as what they are, we need to know how they are going to be correct and what that needs to solve this and then weíd like to know, once these things are solved what is going to happen, is it going to drain like it did for the last 30-years where it didnít flood peopleís houses or whatís going to happen? Then we could also request when this process would start? I know this is probably all outside of anything you could answer, but weíre concerned about our home values. There are 170 of us and if you look at this at least a quarter of us, our home values are severely affected right now and that is going to transition over into everybody elseís as well and we could have a great deal of unhappy people and we would like to avoid that. We would just like to live in a dry area. Our committee came together to talk about this issue and there are some things that we understand that I just want to put in front of you to see if we are correct. We understand that the County Commissioners are responsible for the economic Development of the County and that Economic development includes new buildings and we also understand that the Drainage Board is responsible to the County Commissioners and that the Drainage Board approves new buildings as far as their drainage and what is going to be going into the County and so that also works with the economic development. So if those two things are correct, then we feel that if the County Commissioners have allowed for this development to occur which is great for our County and the Drainage Board approved the drainage designs for these developments, then we feel that itís the Drainage Board and the County Council responsibility to have the problem corrected and by bringing, the way we understand it is by you bringing action against the property owners to the north of us that these adverse affects that are causing trouble with us could be corrected. The last thing Iíll say is that the problem and Iíve already said it once is that the problem is not drainage within our neighborhood, it has to do just like the other gentleman presented with the area immediately north of us and if there is any way that your Board could contact these owners or send them a letter or send them something serious that says youíve got to clean out your ditches because it is impeding, itís having a negative impact on 170 houses directly south of you that youíve got to take care of or there might be some kind of penalty. I donít know what that penalty is but if you guys swing a big stick Iím sure they will want to do it. If not, I mean we will look into other ways of getting it solved, but we want to work with the County and with the Drainage Board and we want to come to a solution, but itís just not right that people are continually having their houses flooded and we would like to see it solved.


Carl Conner:I think Iíd like for Jim because Jim is really taking the lead role in this to bring me up to date in regards to his efforts to contact the developer andÖ


Don Williams:Weíve already started that process by the way.


Carl Conner: the owners in regards to that and the Surveyorís office and the Drainage Board which is basically the County Commissioners also. I think that we all feel even though we were not in office when all this was approved, we feel a moral obligation to do everything we possibly can to correct these issues and itís going to take us some time to get them corrected but that is our ultimate goal to work with the neighbors. I know several of us were over there the day that sandbagging was going on and I mean Iíve been over there 3-4 times and I have first hand knowledge other Board members do also and I just wanted to assure you that maybe we move a little slowly but itís not the fact that we are not recognizing the problem or our lack of wanting to help,. Itís just a matter of the restraints that we have on us and one of those restraints is time, it takes time to get all this together.


Mr. Faber:We understand that but we also feel that we should keep coming in front of you to see how the process is coming.


Board Members assured them they had no problem with that, that they are always welcome.


Carl Conner:Jim has put a list of topics together here as projects and is keeping us up to date and thatís why I just ask him to put that other gentlemanís project on that list also that we are going to defer to the County Highway Department so we can stay on top of it.


Mr. Faber:So, how is this list organized, is it organized by severity or organized by how it was brought to the Board?


Jim Niemeyer: I compile it you know, last meeting we had a really standing room only more or less, so I thought for the benefit of the Drainage Board, I would write a summary of all the different complaints that we received. And at the top of the list Iíve got Birch Drive/Springview Apartments and I will just read what I wrote today, I saidĒ Several calls were made to ped-core who owns the complex the headquarters in Indianapolis and their engineering firm is Beam, Longest & Neff. I also talked to the engineer that designed the complex and he is a professional engineer and I told him about the problem. Now this was about a day or two after we had the meeting and Iíve been playing telephone tag, they donít seem to be really getting the message, so I fully expect to get a call today and yesterday I gave them several alternate dates that we could consider to have this meeting. I told them we would like to have it at the Springview Apartments in Newburgh to discuss the problem. I listed the attendees that I would expect to have which are Bob Howard, Warrick County Engineer, the other one would be Tom Koontz who is the manager of Ped-Corp and Douglas Longcrefe, who is the professional engineer who did that and heís got his stamp and seal and name, heís signed on the line, so heís responsible. Bobby Howard, our County Engineer and Steve Sherwood, is my Chief Surveyor, my consultant that I can use in these situations and Sean Owen, my Deputy Surveyor and of course myself and Iíve also noted that Mrs. Potts has asked to be invited to that meeting which I donít see any problem with that. So, if I donít hear from them tomorrow, Iím going to turn it over to Mr. Zengler and have him get his red pencil and whip out so we can go to work.


Carl Conner: Mr. Zengler is our Attorney, so he knows what the legal process is that we can go through to bring these people to the table to correct mistakes and that is why he is here.


Mr. Faber: Mr. Zengler, we have a meeting tomorrow night, could you tell me briefly what some of theseÖ.what your whip will do?


Mr. Zengler: I think an investigation will be made to determine whether theyíve actually built the project as they set it out to be. This Board would have certain rights if they are not built that way to try to correct those, whether it be a series of projects, you know, I guess ultimately a suit could be filed. Hopefully we donít get that far, but that ÖÖ. So that would probably be the first determination is if the project was built pursuant to the plans that were submitted.


Mr. Faber:Who makes that decision?


Don Williams:The Engineers, Mr. Sherwood and Mr. Howard, the County Engineer and his engineering consultant.


Mr. Faber: Okay, thatís great, and then after that, itís just whatever needs to be done.


Mr. Zengler: We would hopefully get it corrected pursuant to their plans and what the Engineer would recommend.


Mr. Faber: Well, that takes care of the apartments, but what about the ditch behind Schnucks, thatís as I understand that our ditch is on my property so is it the same for them, do they need to get out there and start cleaning it up?


Jim Niemeyer: Yeah, that would be the probably the direct approach. I do know that they are doing an engineering study and a feasibility study to increase that complex and the ditch is, of course like you say there is one that runs by the condominium and the ditch runs behind the store. It does need to be cleaned out and I can contact them, but I would also like to contact the engineer thatís doing the work for an evaluation of the site as I would like to have his input. But, that all drains into a drain that goes under Bell Road which goes down the street and makes a bend and goes under 66 and comes into what is known as Edwards Ditch which drains west and then eventually goes north up towards Chandler all the way around toward the Ohio River. But those areas need to be cleaned out too and if we get some of the additional funding we need we can do that. Iíve already got 61,000 feet of ditch lined out to clean and as soon as I have 3 or $400,000.00 maybe more to do that weíll ask the Board to approve that and weíll do it.


Carl Conner: Now the County Highway Department has been working on Edwards Ditch already, havenít they?


Jim Niemeyer: Yes


Mr. Faber: Okay, so just so I can go back and tell them tomorrow, youíve already contacted Schnucks, okay, you havenít, hearing what you are saying, my concern is that if you talk to them and they donít want to have it taken care of until any of the further development is done, I donít think that is right for us.


Jim Niemeyer:Weíll know that shortly.


Don Williams:Correct me, if Iím wrong here, Mr. Zengler, but anytime, even though itís not a legal drain if itís a natural drain, which it certainly would be I would say, if it is impeded in some way, then we can require them to clean it that out. And I think I donít know if we need a motion or not, but I would like for you to go the manager @ Schnucks there and tell them the situation that it is a natural drain and by law itís got to be kept clean where it can drain and let them know how many residents did you say are being flooded out? About 25-30 homes are being flooded out because his ditch isnít clean and just let them know that it has to be cleaned. Iíd say the sooner the better and see what kind of response you get. Do we need a motion on that?

Mr. Zengler:Probably


Don Williams:Okay, then I would make a motion that we have the County Surveyor contact the manager or whoever the CEO is at that particular store and let them know the situation with the emphasis of the impediment of the natural drain and their responsibility to clean it if it is their property and if not then we can have it cleaned and bill them. He needs to understand all that and we donít want it six months from now, the sooner the better. Thatís my motion, do I have a second?


Carl Conner Second.††


Motion was made and seconded, all members voted aye motion passes 3-0.


Jim Niemeyer:I just wanted to add that if that area was declared to have a legal drain that I want to, in fact Iíve already contacted another County Surveyor that has declared a lot of these drains to be legal and that was done even after the subdivisions were built, so thereís a little additional work to be done, so Iím asking him to send me a copy of what theyíre doing in this regard, because they are looking at stuff that is 25-30-40 years old and in those instances as I understand it there can be various Right-of-Ways as little as 15-foot up to 25-foot. 15-foot would be if the drainage was totally enclosed, donít know if you can do that in that area, but Ö..


Mr. Faber: What is the area that you are talking about the legal drain, is itÖ..


Don Williams:Right now Mr. Faber, there is no legal drain, heís talking about if we should and there is a process, it will take a few months to do that to go through the legal processes. But we can make that a legal drain actually all the way through the subdivision. But that would require a certain amount of easement on each side of that ditch, butÖ..


Mr. Faber: Why does it have to go through the subdivision?


Don Williams:It doesnít, Iím just saying it could, now we could take this and I believe we could make that section going down through there a legal drain and I donít think theyíll want that either. I think that will give them the emphasis to go ahead and make the changes as far as cleaning out that ditch. They are like a lot of people they are profit oriented and they donít do anything unless somebody climbs on them with a pair of spurs, so we need to do that.


Mr. Faber:This is Donna Potts, Iím sure you remember her from the last meeting, she is saying that David Fritz is an attorney that owns part of the villas.


Donna Potts:Part of that drain, we were told was owned by David Fritz an attorney in Jasper an incorporation he has, the part like right from us (she pointed on the map)


Mr. Faber asked if they were able to contact him as well.

It sounded like Miss Potts answered yes, but she was not on the microphone and she asked Mr. Niemeyer a question also about Schnucks.


Don Williams:We should be able to get all that information from the auditorís office to confirm the ownership.


Mr. Faber: Since you made a motion to contact the Schnucks owner would you make a motion to contact him as well?


Don Williams:Yes, I would just amend my motion to include all those property owners along that drainage way as it needs to be cleaned and really that section shouldnít be done by the residents or the County it would be the property owners that need to do that, thatís their responsibility.


Jim Niemeyer:Itís like a jungle.


Mr. Faber:I have one last question, who is going to check thatís it been done?

You will do it sir?


Jim Niemeyer: I will.


Don Williams:I donít want to cut you off, but we need to start the Commissioners Meeting on time today, but I will say that the County may not operate as quickly, but our intent is to take care of all the problems in Ohio Township. So it may take awhile as we get money as it takes money to do anything but we will get it done eventually.


Mr. Faber: I appreciate all of your time and youíll have a lot of happy people tomorrow I can tell you when we have our HOA meeting. Thank you very much.


Don Williams:The problem is your subdivision is of an age where it was put in without any drainage and that is unfortunate. Thank you for your time. Jim, will you save this for expedition purposes, item 4 summary, was that the list that you gave us? Let us read that I havenít had a chance to even read through that before you do any comments, is that ok? Weíll just delay that until we get a chance to read it cause I just got it about an hour before the meeting.




Don Williams:The next item is claims. We have claims in the amount of $7,928.76 have you gentlemen had an opportunity to look at the claims?


Board members answered yes


Carl Conner: I move that we approve the claims totaling $7,928.76 for payment. Seconded by Phil Baxter. All members voted aye. Motion carried 3-0.


Don asked for any other business to come before the Board.


Carl Conner: Jim, If I may we talked about this issue earlier today and I said I was going to bring it up but I do not see a notation here.


Jim Niemeyer:For Framewood?


Carl Conner:Well, the Framewood situation involves IDEM right now at the present time, is that correct and so weíre waiting for the Stateís input in regards to the Framewood drainage problem.


Laura Tanner: Laura Tanner, Asher Subdivision, I know that you were going to wait until you read some notes from him but we have some representatives here right now, is there anything that you can say on our subdivision for us?


Jim Niemeyer: I field checked the detention pondthatís where part of the problem is and part of it is like you say it comes from the drains along Outer Lincoln, but that is being address because Outer Lincoln is going to be rebuilt or reconfigured so that drainage will become a part of that.


Laura Tanner: But thatís not set until 2010, isnít it?


Jim Niemeyer: Iím not sure when it is.


Don Williams:Whatís that?


Jim Niemeyer: The drainage along Outer Lincoln. That road is going to be rebuilt or widened and drainage will be a part of that.


Carl Conner: Drainage will part of the improvements to Lincoln Avenue and the first phase of Lincoln Avenue is to start construction in the spring of 2007 and that will be from the County line going east to the intersection of Grimm Road and Lincoln Avenue, that is the first phase.


It was asked when their part would be worked on as they were west of there.


Carl Conner:Up to Frame Road, I donít really know the time table for that area between Grimm and Frame Road, but I could get that information from the Engineers office and let you know.


She kept asking questions from the audience and was very hard to understand, she asked something about developers to the left?


Jim Niemeyer: What I found out in Asher is that the biggest thing is that detention pond area, it needs to beÖ.a verification needs to be completed to determine that it was built as it was supposed to have been built or designed to have been built. The other thing that I found is that there was a drain pipe installed between Asher and Stone Creek and this was not an approved drain as best I can tell and I feel like itís undersized because during this last rain the water came out of there full stream and normally the standards here are that a drain shall flow no more than 90% of capacity which means you can see daylight between the top of the pipe, but I was told by a builder that it ran full stream, but anyway it was not designed to have a pipe in it, it was designed I believe to have an open ditch or an open swale.


People in the audience keep asking questions and they are completely inaudible.


Jim Niemeyer: No, itís going the other way, itís going north. It flows from there it goes north, it hits upon SR 66 and turns right and then goes under 66 and into Edwards Ditch and up to Chandler and eventually to the Ohio River. So all those avenues need to be cleaned and unrestricted and the owners of those two subdivisions are going to have to work to get the problem resolved there.


More questions from the audience.


Jim Niemeyer: Well, apparently it flows under the underground there you know with both hills come down there and they meet at a point somewhere there is a juncture where it flows I suppose north.


Don Williams:Maam, you need to comeÖweíre not getting any of this on record, you need to come up to the microphone, sorry to inconvenience you but we donít have any way of making a public record if we canít hear you.


Laura Tanner:My name is Laura Tanner and Iím with Asher Subdivision. I live at 4645 Clint Circle. Is it possible that the drainage from Lincoln where itís suppose to go under our neighborhood into the retention pond, that that is clogged somehow because of all of the mud thatís come out of those drains from Lincoln, itís just muddy looking water that comes down and goes straight into those drains, Is there anything in the short term that you guys can do to try and see if thatís one of the cases?


Jim Niemeyer: Well, if I may stand to be corrected, but I think that we could ask the Highway Department to check the drainage capacity of that drain.


Ms. Tanner: Because it is seriously coming up very quickly out of that drain and the rear part of our neighborhood has been up higher than 22 inches and the front of my house has gotten up to here. People canít get in or out of their houses. Itís a really bad situation and we really donít know what to do, short term even about it.


Jim Niemeyer:This will be taken up rather quickly.


Ms. Tanner: So, it is something that you guys are planning on correcting?


Carl Conner: Maam,


Can you give me your telephone number so I can call you with that schedule?


Lady(?) Yes, my phone number is 853-5267 and I do have a question I want to ask Mr. Niemeyer. I spoke to you on the phone yesterday and you said something about a gas, a pipe that has aÖÖ.


Jim Niemeyer:Well, you know I really thought I was smart and brilliant, but it turned out to be a communications cable, which may be about as bad as gas.


Lady X: Whose problem is that to fix?


Jim Niemeyer I called Vectren and I think that they went in there and closed that in. In fact I got a call from a Vectren employee this morning and he thanked me for calling.


Lady X:So that will be addressed, we have been unable to get any resolution from the developer, Mr. Al Holweger. What do you propose we do, I mean we feel like weíreÖyou keep saying that itís up to you and your developer, the developer does not respond and we walked down there after the last rain and noticed that the drainage pipe thatís going out of the retention pond north, it must be broken as it comes out and makes a quick turn and when you walk around to Kenny Ubelhor development next to us and look in there is about that much space. The rest of it is constantly full of water and I donít know if that can just be cut off there so that water can actually get out orÖ..


Jim Niemeyer:It probably was done when they installed the pipe in there so what I say in my memo here is that needs to be repaired.


Don Williams:You have sent letters to Mr. Holweger, have you not?


Jim Niemeyer:Not about this, I wanted the Commissioners and the Drainage Board to seeÖ..


Lady XIs it possible to have the lawyer draft something that would maybe urge him toÖ..


Jim Niemeyer:Well, Iíve already got some others that have gone out and I havenít heard anything back, so I guess I can just add another one to the list.


Lady X:Would that be the next step, something on legal paper thatÖÖ.Is that something that you would plan to do for us.


Jim Niemeyer:Yes Maam


Lady X:Do we have a time line on any of this that we can expect to see some results?


Jim Niemeyer: As soon as things can be made to happen.

Lady X: Would you be in contact with us then, when you get results?


Jim Niemeyer: Sure, you can always call the office too and if Iím not here Sean can help you.




Paul Halter: Iím Paul Halter from Asher Subdivision and I just have a question. Ubelhorís subdivision that is just to the west of us, I mentions last time his two drains where his road comes out into Lincoln and the water comes out are blocked off, he plugged them up. All his water now comes down into Lincoln and into Asher drains, has anybody had a chance to look at that or contact him about that?


Jim Niemeyer: No, sir you can whip me for that and I will go out there and check it.




Carl Conner:The other issue that I wanted to speak of and I think that Iíd like to see this Board address this issue today, we have the situation over in Tanglewood, weíve already been over in the Tanglewood area and Telephone Road area and Coal Mine Road area and I feel like that we can resolve 99.9% of that flooding over there if we go ahead and do work on the Legal Drain through Tanglewood. I understand that itís about 6,000 linear feet running west all the way over to Fuquay Road. I would like to make a motion that we direct the County Surveyor to go out for sealed bids to clean that 6,000 feet of that legal drain that runs through Tanglewood.


Phil Baxter: Is that taking up where Bill Bivins was talking about last week?


Carl Conner: Yes, they are going to do to the bridge and then weíre talking from the bridge down to Fuquay Road.


Phil Baxter: Okay, Second


A motion was made and seconded all members voted aye. Motion carried 3-0.


Phil Baxter: I move we adjourn.




David Zengler: Gentlemen, before you adjourn could I have one minute? I have been talking with Jim Gutting of Barnes & Thornburg. He has reviewed our proposal, he has made some preliminary suggestions and he was inquiring whether you would like for him to come to the next meeting or would you prefer for him to send some documents and timelines to us to review first.


Carl Conner: Is this in regards to the legal aspect of the possibility of floating a bond issue for the comprehensive drainage plan?


David Zengler:That is correct.


Carl Conner: I would move that we have him at our next meeting.

Don Williams seconded the motion. All members voted aye motion carried 3-0.


Don Williams:If it is going to be a lengthy presentation, I would make this motion that if the Barnes & Thornburg presentation is going to be a lengthy one that we move our meeting up to 3:30 that day.


Carl Conner:I agree


Don Williams:So you find out and let us know and weíll make a public notice and see what they have to say because that will take care of the drainage of the whole southeastern part of the county. Southwestern part of the county, rather. Okay we are adjourned.