COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM
††††††††††† December 13, 2006
The Warrick County Drainage Board met in regular session with President Don Williams presiding, also in attendance were Phillip H. Baxter, Vice-President; Carl Jay Conner, Secretary; James E. Niemeyer, Surveyor and David K. Zengler, Attorney.
Minutes were recorded and transcribed by Cheryl D. Embry.
Also in attendance:† Bob Bean, John Berendsen, Dane VanDewater and Keith Mercer.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:†
Don Williams: Warrick County Drainage Board, December 13, 2006 come to order. The first item on the agenda is the minutes of November 22, 2006, have you gentlemen had a chance to look at those minutes?
Carl Conner: I would make a motion that we approve the minutes of November 22, 2006 as presented.
Phil Baxter:† Iíll second the motion.
Motion was made and seconded to approve minutes, motion carried 3-0.
DRAINAGE PLAN APPROVAL:
Bill Bivins: †Bill Bivins, engineer, three lot subdivision, minimum lot size 2 Ĺ acres large lake. Iíve got a copy here of the whole subdivision which shows you how large the lake is.
Carl Conner:† Question?
Bill Bivins:† Yes sir
Carl Conner: Is this the plans that we had earlier in regards to making a change to one lot and there was two options relative to making the change, one was the approval of all the adjacent land owners 100% or two by filing a hardship case before Area Plan which so happens Iím on the Area Plan Committee and the hardship case which you had presented was basically denied?
Bill Bivins: Thatís going to come up with the Area Plan tonight, Carl with an attorney who is going to present the hardship case at the Area Plan.
Carl Conner: Right, but this is theÖ.
Bill Bivins:† This is the same one, but in order for us to proceed we have to have drainage and street approvals.
Carl Conner:† That answers all the questions I have.
Phil Baxter:† Jim, do you have any problems with this?
Jim Niemeyer:† No, but I will refer to your decision.
Don Williams:† Okay, this isÖÖ..
Bill Bivins:† We are just requesting that no drainage plans or retention be required, is what weíre requesting only in this subdivision.
Don Williams:† The plat will come before the Board of Commissioners, I take it?
Bill Bivins: The street plans will come before the Board of Commissioners and then tonight it is scheduled to be on the Area Plan tonight..
Don Williams:† Now for us, Mr. Attorney, they just have to meet ourÖ.
David Zengler: Basically they just have to meet the drainage requirements.
Don Williams:† Okay, any questions from the Board or any statements? Iíll entertain a motion.
Phil Baxter:† I move that we approve the drainage plans for Wren Lake Subdivision.
Don Williams: Do I have a second? Do I have a second? I will second the motion. For benefit of a discussion, this does not determine if this subdivision goes forward or not this is just simply a judicial act in saying it meets our drainage plans.
Bill Bivins: It meets your drainage plans, yes. The Area Plan decides whether it is denied.
Motion was made and seconded motion carried 2-1. Mr. Conner voting nay.
Don Williams: Is someone here representing Premier Video, please state your name and who you represent, sir.
Keith Mercer: My name is Keith Mercer, I own Premier Video
and Premier tan in
We presently have about 51 parking spaces in the parking lot and it would set up at the very end of the parking lot and the area shaded in green is all grassy area about a 20-foot section there and then the ditch is down below.
Don Williams:† Youíre wanting to infringe on the green area?
Mr. Mercer: No, the trailer itself will be on our parking lot, it will not infringe on the green are or the drainage ditch.
Don Williams:† I mean, what weíre seeing here is not as proposed, but as it is?
Mr. Mercer: No, we donít have anythingÖ.that is the layout of the property, there is no trailer on there, Iím just here to get permission to do that.
Don Williams:† But the parking lot is already here?
Mr. Mercer:† Yes, itís already here, been here for 15 years.
Don Williams:† And you just want to set up a trailer on it?
Mr. Mercer: Right, with promotional banners on both sides of it.
Don Williams:† †I donít know why youíre here.
Mr. Mercer: They told me to come.
Don Williams:† Do you Dave?† I mean we wouldnít handle anything like that. We strictlyÖÖ
David Zengler:† Unless he would be in the Right-of-Way of the legal drain.
Don Williams:† Yeah, unless heís going to be in the green area.
Mr. Mercer: No, weíre not going to be in the green area.
Carl Conner:† May I ask who suggested that you come to the Drainage Board meeting?
Mr. Mercer: The girls downstairs in the Area Plan Commission. I talked to them first and they didnít see any problem with it but they said I should come to this meeting.
Jim Niemeyer: I thought the way I understood that it was going to be in the green area and I would say that even if it was it could be removed easy.
Don Williams:† As long as youíre in the parking area this Board has no jurisdiction that I know of..
Mr. Mercer: Okay, so I go back down and see them then? So, I can move ahead with it?
Don Williams: No I wouldnít think so unless you need a permit for your signs then you go down and see them.
Carl Conner: Yeah, if itís a semi-trailer truck, then you need to go to the Building inspectorís office to get a petition. I think weíre treating them like a billboard under the local ordinance. I canít be sure, but it would be either the Building Dept or APC.
Mr. Mercer: Did you want to keep these drawings?
Carl Conner: Thereís really no need for us to have them if you would like to have them back. I apologize to you for being directed inappropriately.
Mr. Mercer thanked the Board.
Don Williams: †Next item is Fieldstone Subdivision owners association, Mr. Berendsen?
Did I pronounce that correctly, sir?
John Berendsen: Yes sir, My name is John Berendsen and I
Bob Bean: The meeting we were here on before was July 7, 2005 and I have a copy of the minutes, if you donít have a copy I can let you use these to see what was said.
Don Williams:† I remember you being here.
Bob Bean: At that time we were concerned about the drainage and the ditch between Fieldstone and the apartments not being able to carry the water as we have had some trouble with it flooding before. At that time we had discussed before the committee about getting some things done and try to help that situation a little bit cause we could see down the road that we were in for some serious problems. I believe that Mr. Conner even made the statement, if Iím not mistaken that he could see that there was going t be a serious problem there and that it should be handled.
Carl Conner: Iíve been out there a number of times.
Bob Bean: In the minutes from that meeting you were going to
do several things and get with the Commissioners and Drainage Board and you
were going to get with the gentleman also that cleans out the ditches which his
name is in here, Tom and you were going to get together and have a meeting and
get back with us and talk to us and get us in on a joint thing to try and solve
this problem which was a long range deal. Itís became more than a problem now
and the last big rain we had in September we measured 5-inches on our rain
gauges. A lot of the people in our subdivision couldnít even get home as the streets
were flooded so bad.† It came up halfway
across yards in front and in back and that ditch will not carry the water. I
think the Drainage Commission said we need to clean the vines, bushes and grass
out of the ditch, but that is not the situation. Let me show you some pictures
here I have for you and on each one of these pictures I made some little
notations. The program Iím going to talk about you will see on the map of where
Don Williams:† †Is
Bob Bean: Yes, it should be
Carl Conner:† Youíre talking about the subdivision that is adjacent?
Bob Bean: That would be on the other side of
Don asked Mr. Bean to please return to the microphone so that everything would be recorded.
Bob Bean: That number one picture is showing water coming in
between houses and crossing
Carl Conner: That ditch is in road Right-of-Way. Iím going to assume that ditch is in road Right-of-Way and thatísÖ..County has total control over it. I guess what Iím saying is that itís in road Right-of-Way and the County has access to do whatever they need to do.
Bob Bean: The next picture number 5 is sitting on
Number 9 picture is a retention pond in Fieldstone
subdivision and youíll notice how full it is and how close it is to running
over in the streets. Number 10 is giving you some indication of the water that
is up against that house. Youíll also notice the water outlet that is from our
retention pond that water is 5-foot above water level, it is backed up from the
ditch between Fieldstone property and the apartments. Since the apartments dumped
two retention ponds into there and all the water coming from the south side of
Carl Conner:† Youíre talking about that ditch that runs north and south between the backside of the apartment complex and your street there?
Bob Bean: Yes, we both live on that ditch back there. I live in the second house and he lives in the 6th house. But it has become such a problem and this was a 5-inch rain, now we have had an 8-inch rain so I can only see now with all the water their directing into our property on our properties, I know itís a water easement, but itís still our property. That ditch when we moved there, there was a fence row and I also have pictures of that where there was just a trickle of water back there. But since they have been building more and moving around and the County came in there and dug that out on that 20-foot water easement and when they dug it out it was probably 6-foot deep and I know with time it fills up but even at that they could dig it deeper and wider and it still wouldnít carry the water especially if we have an 8-inch rain. So what I am asking is what can the Board or the County do to help this situation and where do we go from here other than having minutes and we donít get anything done from them. Thatís being a little bit ornery but itís true.
John Berendsen: Well the problem is, it has gotten a lot worse since we met a year ago in July and a lot of that is due to this apartment complex is finished now and all their surface water is dumping into that ditch also.
Carl Conner:† Well theyíve got all that ground over there now paved and there is just no place for the water to drain.
Mr. Bean talked about other pictures he had and also stated that he thought it might have gotten into the video store there on Ruffian as it was up to the door and water was sloshing also at the door of Licís ice cream.
Carl Conner: We have a number of these issues over in that area that we are dealing with right now and my suggestion would be is that the County Surveyor also take an approach towards this issue and try to determine what we need to do there to correct it and then work towards doing that and for example, we have a project that is underway at the present time on Lincoln east of hwy 261 because of the flooding over there on Owens Drive in that area. We are trying to ditch that out and do it right, I would say in this situation we need to go out and study what we need to do from the standpoint of the present ditches for example do they need to be cleaned out, clean em out, do they need to be redirected, try to redirect them. Also to just in general an overview of how we can improve the drainage in that area and then have the County Surveyor come back to this Board and you two can come back also at that meeting and we can give you information on what we are going to do and in addition to that as the County Surveyor is going through that and dealing with possibly an engineering firm we have hired BLA in regards to some of this drainage. Also to set up a meeting with you two as representatives of your homeowners association and sit downÖ.I think you have done a very good job here today but to sit down and Iím sure there are other issues that are related to this that you havenít discussed that you need to discuss with him so he can come up with a better plan to resolve the problems. If I need to put that in the form of a motion, Iíll just take that as a motion, but we do appreciate you coming to us and we try to address these issues when they come up because there have been a number of changes in the County that has created these problems especially in Ohio township with all the building. There is just no place for water to be absorbed or for it to drain off adequately.
Bob Bean: One other comment in regards to this ditch in question in between Foxmoor and the apartments. When I went around to the highway ditches as deep as they are now were actually flooded to the top and the ditch that runs down over by Ruffian and into that ditch, a lot of that water was backing up into the retention ponds was dumping in there and all that was backing up and holding the water that is coming North, actually it is running north from Locust and it was all ponding in there and it had no place to go but just flood out. I have watched these rains and watched them and every time we get a big rain I go down and start patrolling and looking at it, to me it looks like itís going across Highway 66, the four lane going north of that. I would assume that goes to Pigeon Creek eventually doesnít it?
Phil Baxter: It does.
Mr. Bean: Everything was full all the way in there that I could see and I donít know if there is anyway you could stop it from happening.
Carl Conner: Were you over in the area of
Mr. Bean:† Yes
Carl Conner:† Okay, we have been doing work, the Highway Department has been doing work over there and they just recently finished digging out underneath that bridge and they put in riprap there to help that water. The water flow problem with the highway though will have to be dealt with by the state, we canít do anything with that.
Mr. Bean: Yeah, but again there is construction going on in that area there which is going to you know present a lot more drainage problems, more water.
Don Williams:† We do have a study under way and what we are looking at in two different areas in the area you are at and also an area further west and your observations are correct the water does run north which is away from the river. Youíre setting there maybe 1.4 miles from the river and the water is going the wrong way and weíre looking at all those issues to try and get the drainage issue solved once and for all and it is not going to be an easy or cheap task, but that is what we are looking at.
Mr. Bean: Another thing that is concerning usÖÖ..
Don Williams:† I know that didnít help but getting the Locust Street water routed to the Bell Road ditch and it is still going to the same place but at least it will get it away faster.
Mr. Bean:† It will keep from flooding our area so bad. Also the thing weíre concerned about is expeeding this thing to the point that it gets some seriousness to it that how long will this take 2-3 more years and if it does weíre in a world of trouble.
Carl Conner: It may take us 2-3 years in regards to putting the comprehensive as Don said, the comprehensive plan in place for the entire County, but itís not going to take us 2-3 years to address your specific problems there, as I said what I did earlier, I will put that in the form of a motion, my question will be to Jim, when Jim can be back after meeting with you and doing whatever he feels necessary or appropriate to gather sufficient date and information to help up resolve the issue when he can be back at this meeting for a presentation of that, that is generally the way we have been handling these issues and Iím just looking at the calendar here. So I guess Jim, right now in the course of January do you think that you can have something back to us sometime in January of 2007 or do we have to look into February?
Don Williams:† Are you looking at the 10th or at the 24th?
Jim Niemeyer: Well, Iíll tell you what Iíd like to do is uhÖÖ.. either date will be fine, but some things we can do fairly rapidly you know but like you say the comprehensive plan will take time and I was just going to say without looking at the area north of Fieldstone, I donít know what lays up here but it intersects with Edwards ditch which is a legal drain and like he said it did fill up but we can see if we can extend that up there. This for sure needs to be cleaned out, I donít even need to go out there and look at that,† But you know that and the cleaning of Edwards Ditch would be a quick fix up there but it wonít be a permanent one.
Carl Conner: Let me just add into my motion that the County Surveyor will give us a presentation in regards to a plan that will resolve your issue at our January 24, 2007 meeting and to the best of my knowledge we are not changing the meeting dates or times are we for next year?
Don Williams:† I donít think so.
Carl Conner: So it will be at 3:00.
Mr. Bean: What concerns me so much is, is that is what we were told last time that in three months he was going to give you a report back and try to meet with us and resolve this thing, that was over a year ago and we havenít done it yet, soÖÖÖÖÖÖ.
Don Williams: Well you come back that date and hold our feet to the fire sometimes that needs to be done.
Carl Don Conner: I apologize if we didnít do what we said we would do, I apologize for that, the entire Board does, but weíll see to itÖÖ
Mr. Berendsen: Well, Bob and I will make ourselves available but it needs to be resolved and there is a lot of other folks involved other than just Fieldstone.
Carl Conner: Right and why I said the latter part of January is to be perfectly honest we have about 7 of these projects right now that Jim is dealing with and so we do need a little time and we do appreciate your understanding. That was motion.
Phil Baxter: Iíll second it.
Williams:† Motion made and seconded. All members voted aye motion carried 3-0.
HUNTINGTON CREEK SUBDIVISION-PIPE REQUEST:
Don Williams:†† Huntington Creek pipe request, John Kiel. You donít look like a John Kiel.
Susan Kiel: No, Iím not John, Iím Susan Johnís wife, he was
called out on business so I am here representing both of us and also with me is
Mike Andreas and Paul Hullman, Paul is a builder. John and I own a piece of
property in Huntington Creek and weíre neighbors with Mike and his wife Linda.
We have a proposal we wanted to make with you based upon a meeting John had
with Mr. Niemeyer, the
Don Williams:† Will that take you to the edge there where it goes to the river, the 60-feet?
Ms. Kiel: It wonít go all the way to the river, no it will still empty out into the lowland there as it currently does. We would use the same materials that are in the existing system, the same diameter pipe, the same concrete exit and if you look at the next page you can see that we would keep the current grade through the length of that extension so that it will drain properly over the 60-feet. We have spoken with a licensed contractor about doing this work and he understands the requirements for what would be underneath that the bed that would be underneath it and so forth but it was Mr. Niemeyerís suggestion that we bring this before the Board to get permission from you to extend this drain. Do you have any questions?
Carl Conner: I just have one question, who was the developer?
Ms. Kiel: Bruce Miller @ Newburgh Development.
Don Williams:† I donít know again if this really affects this Board, but as long as you keep the same size pipe I donít have a problem with it at all, youíre not impeding or having anything to do with a regulated drain here itís just a natural watershed and as long as your not restricting a natural watershed as this Board would usually have a few words to say to them, but as far as going ahead with this I donít know that we actually need to do this but you certainly have my permission, is there anybody else who would like to say anything or make a motion?
Phil Baxter: I donít have any problem with it, but it you want a motion Iíll make a motion.
Don Williams:† Do WeÖÖis this somethingÖitís kind of in a gray area there, itís not a legal drain, but if you want our blessing I think we could probably give you our blessing.
Jim Niemeyer: They need to maintain the proper slope so that it doesnít back-up.
Don Williams:† Iíll go ahead and put that in a motion as long as you use the proper size pipe with a proper slope, Iíll make a motion that we allow the request.
Carl Conner: Second
Motion was made and seconded to approve pipe. All voted aye motion carries 3-0.
Jim Niemeyer: We didnít start the Tanglewood cleaning project yesterday as it was pretty wet.
Jim Niemeyer: I have completed the drainage description for the extension of Edwards Ditch behind Springview apartments and I have a draft form of the map showing where the location of the drain will be and so I need to add more data to it to describe the documents in which those tracts were recorded in and so forth.
Don Williams:† Have you been in contact with the apartment?
I did and I talked to them about 1:30 this afternoon and I did not reach
them. I have made periodic calls to them and asked when we are going to get
their proposals and so forth. But that is about as far as it goes and I told
them this afternoon that if we did not hear back from them I would just turn it
over to the
Don Williams:† Well, as far as Iím concern if we donít hear something from them in two weeks we need to have our attorney contact them and if we have to put it in and bill them as it is definitely impeding water.
Dane Vandewater: My name is Dane Vandewater, Iím with BHE Environmental on Marathon Pipelineís behalf, basically there is a pipeline that currently runs along State Route 66 and they have been asked from the State Transportation Department to relocate that pipe which they have done, they have basically bypassed certain sections of the existing pipeline along State Route 66 and now they are in the process of extracting the decommissioned pipeline and they are going to be crossing actually pulling the pipe out from beneath in two sections in Summer-Pecka Ditch and basically what theyíve currently been doing is cutting if off on eachÖtrenching up to about 10-feet on either side and been able to pull it through so they actually arenít disturbing the ditch at all and that is what they are proposing to do in the headwater areas thatís already been severely channelized. So that is pretty much it they are not going to be disturbing the channel.
Jim Niemeyer:† I have a copy of their program and it contains a Hold Harmless Agreement that I think we should request from them, other than that I was out there this morning and looked at the project and Iíve done some of that in the past and I think they are going about it in the right way.
Phil Baxter: I move that we approve the request.
Jim Niemeyer: I can use this Hold Harmless Agreement in here, Iíll just copy it and circulate it for signatures.
Carl Conner Second the motion.
Motion was made and seconded. All members voted aye. Motion carried 3-0.
Sherry Rector: I asked this gentleman, Keith Mercer to come back up to make sure that you realize ( she asked to approach the Board) and explained that the area where he wants to put the semi trailer into use for the signage, this entire area is the legal drain Right-of-Way.
Carl Conner:† So itís not colored properly.
Sherri Rector: No, itís not colored right, so I wanted to come up and make sure that the board is aware of that.
Carl Conner: Even though itís got pavement over it?
Sherri Rector: Right and in the past a lot of these signs that are down through there on 66 they would come to the Drainage Board for signage and if they were allowed they had to enter into a Hold Harmless Agreement with the Drainage Board, that is why I wanted to come back as I didnít know if you were aware as the plan is misleading.
Don Williams:† Yes, it is. We thought it was just aÖÖÖÖ
Sherri Rector: This entire area is the Legal Drain.
Don Williams:† Okay, that does make it our business.
Carl Conner: As a result of that, how long are you going to leave it sit there?
Mr. Mercer: I had asked them if there was a time frame on months or weeks or whatever and what I remember them saying is that is if it is on youíre property there wasnít a time line.
Sherri Rector: You can get a temporary sign permit I believe itís for 30 days other wise itís a permanent sign.
Don Williams:† Now we do need a Hold Harmless but thatís going to be on wheels, right?
Mr. Mercer: Right
Don Williams: So if we need to get it out of the way to move in some heavy equipment to clean that ditchÖ.
Mr. Mercer:† No, problem all it would take is a phone call and they will pick it up on the same day.
Carl Conner:† But I have a concern about having something in that ditch on a permanent basis, that is why I am asking how long, do you plan on leaving it there on a permanent basis?
Mr. Mercer: No we are just going to do it for a month or two.
Sherri Rector: I think that you could set a time limit for it to be in the Legal Drain and then we could have that on the permit, if you want to work it that way.
Don Williams:† 60 days 90 days what are you requesting?
Mr. Mercer:† 90 days would be fine.
Carl Conner: Okay, Iíll support 90 days but no longer than that. I would move that we approve the request and the maximum number of days that the trailer will be sitting there would be no greater than 90 days.
Phil Baxter:† Second
Motion was made and seconded all members voted aye. Motion carried 3-0.
Mr. Mercer thanked the Board and they also in return thanked him.
Carl Conner apologized for the misunderstanding.
Don Williams:† Okay, Gentlemen we have claims in the amount of $2,291.66 have you had a chance to look these over and are there any questions?
Phil Baxter:† I move we pay the claims
Carl Conner: Second
Motion was made and seconded all members voted aye. Motion carried 3-0.
Don Williams: Any other business?
Jim Niemeyer: I have one, in order to proceed with the Drainage study you need to select your contractor to do that service for us.
Don Williams:† You are talking about the drainage study primarily of running the Howard-Williams down to the river?† Well, BLA did some work for the previous Surveyor about 3-4 years ago and they would have a really big jump on that, but I donít know what the Board wants to do, we can either go out for RPís or you know they have a lot of leg work already done and it is aÖÖÖÖÖ..
David Zengler: Actually that was my point, I have been talking with Kim Blanchard who came down and she and I have been discussing this and I think that is the next in order to proceed we need to be selecting somebody to do the Engineering and she also commented that if financing becomes an issue they could do a uhÖ..
Carl Conner: Pro-Bono loan? Until we float the Bond Issue, okay.
David Zengler: That is what she said, yes.
Don Williams:† Whatever you Gentlemen feel we need to keep this thing on track with them having a big head up, I would thinkÖ.
Carl Conner: I would be totally supportive of us going ahead and hiring BLA since they have done a lot of that leg work already.
Don Williams:† It would save us money.
Carl Conner: If they can use that information, now if they are going to start over from scratch.
Jim Niemeyer: They donít have to the next thing they need to do is, the first study they did was a preliminary survey and now weíre at the door step to engineering cost estimating surveying and that type of thing, that needs to be done to satisfy the Bonding requirement, I believe.
David Zengler: You going to get some cost estimates and that kind of thing, she also said, what I didnít realize is that it really wouldnít have to be completed, all the engineering as long as there is some preliminary stuff together, she and I and whoever can proceed with theÖÖÖ.
Jim Niemeyer: You know it would be maybe it would be helpful if she would just send us the requirements so we could get off center and get moving.
David Zengler: I think weíre on the right track, we need to get with BLA or whoever youíre going to pick and let them proceed.
Carl Conner: I would move that we re-employ (if thatís a proper term) BLA for purposes of working with the County Surveyor to put the comprehensive plan together for the County drainage primarily the Pigeon Creek drainage to the South.
Don Williams: Howard-Williams Ditch taken all the way to the South, I would second that motion, all in favor?
All members voted aye. Motion carried 3-0.
Don Williams asked if there was anything else to come before the Board.
Phil Baxter Move to adjourn.
Carl Conner: Second
Motion was made and seconded. All members voted aye. Motion carried 3-0.