JANUARY 24, 2007



107 W. Locust Street Suite 303

Boonville, IN 47601




The Warrick County Drainage Board met in regular session with President Phillip H. Baxter presiding, also in attendance were Carl Jay Conner, Vice-President; Don Williams, Secretary; James E. Niemeyer, Surveyor and David K. Zengler, Attorney for Board. Also present was Sean M. Owen, Deputy Surveyor.


Minutes were recorded and transcribed by Cheryl D. Embry.


Also in attendance in the audience were Robert Bean, John Berendsen, Manny Rydholm, Don Larson and Gerry Lewis.




Phil Baxter: Warrick County Drainage Board January 24, 2007 will now come to order. First on the agenda is the approval of minutes, any questions on the minutes or changes?


Don Williams: I have none.I move that we approve the minutes as presented.


Carl Conner:Second


Motion was made and seconded vote was 3-0, motion passed.




Jim Niemeyer: The first item concerns the Youth Sport Complex, is anyone here representing that group? There doesnít appear to be anyone here.


Don Williams: If no one shows up before the end of the meeting I will move that we table it until our next meeting.


Phil Baxter: Have a motion to table if no one shows up for discussion, seconded by Carl Conner. Motion passed 3-0.



Don Larson: Good Afternoon, Itís warmer down here in beautiful Warrick County than it is up in Indianapolis. About a year and a half ago I was meeting at a Commissioners meeting and Iím not sure if it was Don or Carl made a comment that maybe there was some lemonade to be made out of the lemons dealt to the County on this MS-4 program and I think that the point to that comment was that the County does have some wet weather issues some flooding issues. I think those came very apparent in the last 6 to 10 months more than once. The lemonade that was to be made out of this was to maybe find a vehicle at which to finally be able to address those problems and I think that as we proceeded down this course and now we are now compliant as of today with the requirements of the MS-4 program weíve submitted the part A Notice of Intent. Weíve re-submitted part B which was the characterization of the waterways and received an approval of that. We completed the Storm water quality management plan and received approval of that. The County has developed a Department of Storm water Management which is the assemblance of a storm water utility. We are now proceeding with putting together a fair and just cost associated with that utility is and working with Umbaugh as a matter of fact, I have had several meetings with Manatron and weíre working through that process in which to come up with a process in which to come up with a fair and equable fee that will be charged to generate revenues. Along those lines, when we start generating those revenues and people on their tax will start to see a fee associated with storm water they will inquire and rightfully so, what are these fees to be used for? Most of them as is true as with my other clients in this program will more quickly recognize need to correct storm water quantity issues and early on it was agreed that these fees would not just be to merely complied with the unfunded mandated handed down by the federal government and then the State government. But also to find a revenue to really help people that do have some severe flooding problems. Itís one thing just to say you have flooding problems, its another cross as to which you go about that identification process and more importantly a prioritization process so as a constituent comes forward and says now Iím paying this ďwhatever this fee isĒ when are you going to fix it, that is the point of todayís discussion is from the very beginning we had discussed doing a master plan that would fulfill that important role. It would go out and identify both the watershed issues, which is more the MS-4 storm water quality but maybe more importantly identify and prioritize and put costs to fixing some of these storm water quantity problems. So I have prepared along with Mike Phelps from our office that is 15 minutes away as opposed to 3 Ĺ hours away a proposal in a contract form to go through that procedure and that contract has come up to you guys, Dave has seen it and had a couple of comments, we exchanged phone call conversations about that and certainly very open to discussing the terms of that telephone call. But essentially if I couldparaphrase what Davidís thoughts were on this was that the contract was a standard EJCDC contract he had seen many times that I think his biggest concern in this was that the cost identified in the body was a estimated fee. I pointed out this isÖ.these contracts by design maybe are quite lengthy but in the paragraph that spells out the fee it references a paragraph describing that in the back of the contract which basically to put in simple words if we get along into this contract and we find out that there are things that you may want to study more, understanding that this is a fairly massive undertaking that maybe change the direction of it a little bit, maybe there is another situation that occurs that requires a change in focus that sort of thing that indeed the contract could be modified. But only if we provide the Drainage Board with a written basis for that and the Drainage Board responds affirmatively and accepts that written basis and authorizes it. So while in the beginning of the contract it does go to an estimated fee, I wanted to make sure that you understood that it is not a carte blanche by any means, it just allows for a vehicle in a contract like this that is I think understandably an incredible undertaking both by the County and by Commonwealth Engineers to produce a very important document that goes towards the expenditures and prioritizations of funds under this program that we felt it would be probably best to have some flexibility built into it and that is the reason we did it. If it is of a strong opinion no we donít want an estimated in there, we want it to be a fixed fee then I have no problem changing that it was merely a tool in here that I thought would be beneficial for your board. So, with that I guess the other comment you had was since we are in front of this Board as opposed to the Commissioners the thing had to be put for the Boardís signature, so I made that change and I do have a total of 5 copies here today although we donít need to execute 5 and with that, that is all I really had to say about the contract itself. Iíll be happy to go into any of the details on it, Iíve got Mike he is very familiar with the way it was put together, also be very happy to go beyond the discussion here on this and provide additional updates as to where we stand in the program. I kind of touched on that a little bit in that have been meeting with the Umbaugh folks and a number of discussions with the Manatron folks for the implementation of date so that we can move forward with the financial side of things, so with that I am prepared to answer any questions.


Don Williams:Dave, you had a chance to look that over, I did get your note. We were talking about the possibility of a cap are we ok with the estimate, you think as long as they bill it? Did you give aÖ.and Iím trying to remember, I think I looked at it last week.


Mr. Larson: What Iíll doÖthis is essentially the same document as I provided before except I changed it to the Drainage Board signature and that is all I changed. But if you go back to Section 4 it ison 2 of 5 it is article 4 Iím sorry, payments to the Engineer and you go to the standard hourly rates and youíll indicateÖif you go under that where it talks about the total compensation and then it refers to paragraph 4.0 1A.1 The initial page is 2 of 5 4.01 Method of Payment for Services of Engineering, paragraph 1 talks about the fee, but then maybe more importantly I wanted to point out where it discusses if there should be an adjustment of the fee.


David Zengler:I think the adjustment is on Exhibit B on the first page. I can show you betterÖÖ


Mr. Larson: Yes, Exhibit B first page Number 2 starting off when estimated compensation amounts, if you would read through thatÖÖÖ..essentially thatís what I mentioned earlier that is the paragraph that says if we are to go beyond that estimated, that it is not a simple thing we go beyond it. We have to come forward to you with a written basis and receive approval of the basis.


Carl Conner:I donít mean this in any derogatory manner, itís just a thought, is that as we go through this process there are certain criteria thatís going to have to be met and at some point and time basically we could have one of those issues that would be related to number 2 here, when youíre going to come back and I would assume that after weíre once committed as a Board weíre not going to have many options. Weíre not going to have any flexibility.


Mr. Larson: That is an incorrect assumption.


Carl Conner:Well, then you correct me.


Mr. Larson: If there is, because it is an estimated fee, if there is a substantial change in scope and because of the way that we put together a scope and then change that scope into a fee is through a spread sheet, we identify the man hours it is going to take. If there is a change in scope identified to us while we go through this and that change in scope affects the amount of hours then the estimated fee is reduced.


Carl Conner:So, did I understand you correctly, to say that if there is an increase in hours the fee is going to be reduced as a result of the scope?


Mr. Larson:No, if there is an increase in hours as a result of scope changes then we would come and make a justification in writing to you and you would either authorize or not authorize that increase in scope and hours. If there is a reduction in scope, Jim comes to us and says ďwe have this now, we donít need thisĒ then we would reduce our scope and reduce theÖ..and that is why itís not a lump sum, if it were a lump sum then it would be different.


Carl Conner:But is there not going to be a minimum scope for purposes of meeting requirements?


Mr. Larson:Yes, and that is what was put together, understanding that when you say in meeting requirements, Iím assuming you mean to say in meeting requirements of the contract.


Carl Conner:Well, meeting the requirements of the contract but the contract is going to be driven by the requirements that have been legislated that we have to respond to, correct?


Mr. Larson:Only in part, very much only in part.


Carl Conner: Okay, so itís not a 100% situation where we do not have any flexibility whatsoever?


Mr. Larson:Oh no, no thatís not the case. We took a great deal of time putting together the scope thatís laid out in here to strike a balance between the regulatory that is required under the law, that almost slanting it more toward what is that lemonade that weíre making out of the lemons and that is identifying, prioritizing and cost analysis of the quanatated issues. And thatís where we believe there may be the most realized benefit to the County as opposed to the State expense. Is that clear?


Carl Conner: Yes, it is and I think that is a very good response.


Phil asked if there were any more questions and Carl responded that he had more, but thought maybe his questions would be identical to theirs.


Carl Conner: These are probably just issues that weíve probably already covered and I wasnít aware of it, but when we talk about a fee for the service and I assume will be a part o the property tax bill, is that correct?


Mr. Larson: The fee willÖ..the County assessment for the Department of Storm Water Management or the utility fee, it will be included on the property assessment because that will be utilized as a vehicle that will be most cost effectively to do it as opposed to establishing a fee and then coming up with a separate mailing, you might end up spending half your fee on getting it to the constituent.


Carl Conner: So it would be on the property tax bills?


Mr. Larson:Yes


Carl Conner: Okay, now my other question is then are we going to be capped from the standpoint of what can be charged or not charged in our fee structure by the regulations that we have to follow.


Mr. Larson:No.


Carl Conner:Okay, so there is no cap there?


Mr. Larson: No, Iíve seen rangingÖÖ..Delaware County just imposed a fee of95 or 97 cents per month for an equivalent drainage unit or an edu a household. That was an initial fee just to get going and theyíre sharing activities with the City of Muncie and things like that about 30 miles from there is another community that has combined sewer issues and I believe their fee is on the order of $9.00 to $10.00 a month, so these fees are ranging everywhere. I think the 95 cents is the lowest Iíve ever heard of even in the mid-west to upwards of I think some places are upwards of $20.00 or whatever, where they have identified more of a capital project to secure fundings through that fee as opposed to leveraging through bond assessment and that sort of thing.


Carl Conner: Is there any limitations put on us in regards to the usage of those fees? (Mr. Larson answered no)and I guess the reason Iím asking that is those dollar amounts could be used for retirement of debt if there was a bond issue.


Mr. Larson: Yes and excuse me for saying no so quickly cause Iím not a rate consultant that is Umbaugh, but I can say that yes it can be used and as a matter of fact since youíve established a utility, you can leverage for instance, itís a factual statement that these fees will not start to come in until Spring of next year and so you have to ability to also incur that on the anticipation of those fees.

Carl Conner: I have one other question right now, I would assume that every household in the entire County will be covered by the fee or will it only be a portion of the County?


Mr. Larson: It is every household in unincorporated areas of the entire County.


Carl Conner:So, anything outside the city limits that this Drainage Board has responsibility for?


Mr. Larson: Yes, it cannot by statute, encroach any municipal limits.


Carl Conner:Okay, thanks. Thatís all I have for now.


David Zengler: I guess my only point with the contract that I have read, Doug Welp had initially read this contract and he and I have discussed it. I think the only issue is the estimate of the total compensation and there was some talk about maybe we should put a cap on that. I think that it is up to the will of the Board, if youíre satisfied with the way thatís worded in there that it has to come before the Board if itís changed, thatís up to you or I think it was sort of ourÖ.Doug and Iís initial opinion that there should be a cap on it, but thatís you knowÖÖÖ


Mr. Larson: And I have no problem changing to that, that was merely because of theÖthis will be a process in which Commonwealth will be working very closely with individuals here, this is not a situation where Commonwealth comes into a room produces a report and comes out. There is going to be a lot of dialog taking place we want to maximize the use of all existing materials, a lot of it is going to be extracting information of problem areas out of peopleís heads and pulling that together and that is whyÖ..this was a very difficult thing to come up with, a fee, if it were straight forward I promise you I would have been coming forward to you with a lump sum contract. So, if you want to go with a cap on it that would be fine but I would still say there is a potential if you folks want to make some changes that we may come back.


Don Williams:In other words the estimated would become the cap, basically?


Mr. Larson: Yes, it is the cap without any authorization by you folks.


Don Williams:The only difference is, itís not called a cap, I think thatís what weíre a little uncomfortable with. Weíre used to change orders and weíre used to change scopes and weíre used to moreÖÖÖ


Mr. Larson:Well, this is the equivalent of a change order that we would have to come forward to you with a change in scope that would require or change the compensation and weíd have to put it in writing and have to come back, but thatísÖÖ.


Don Williams:†† And donít take this as a lack of trust, but I would feel more comfortable if we had that as a cap instead of an estimate, so I donít have a problem with the contract.


Carl Conner:I guess my question about a cap would be, I assume that youíre estimated cost, if Iím reading this correctly, is going to be $145,000.00?


Mr. Larson:Thatís correct.


Carl Conner:Okay, so if we cap it at $145,000.00, what if it doesnít come in at $145,000.00 are you only going to charge us $122,000.00?


Mr. Larson:Thatís correct, regardless of whether we change the word to a cap or however you want to word the word estimate which has capping language later on. You will be billed on an hourly basis with support for the hours expended.


Carl Conner:And is there an out clause in this contract?


David Zengler:What do you mean by an out clause?


Carl Conner: Can we sever this contract upon a 30-day written notice without any penalties?


David Zengler: Yeah, termination, any party may at any time upon 7-days of written notice to the other party may terminate this agreement.


Carl Conner: Iíve got to be perfectly honest with you, I havenít read this contract. Iíd like to have some time to read it before I would agree to sign it or not sign it and it wonít take me long. If itís okay with you, Iíd like to Ömaybe I could get through it next week some time. But I donít know how the other Board members feel.


Mr. Larson: Absolutely.


Don Williams:I donít mind, I donít think we urgent where we have to do it right away. Well, I think our drainage problems are urgent, but I thing we can read this and if you would, Mr. Larson. I think the BoardÖcan we just do a consensus as far as the cap? We would prefer it in a contract as a cap, am I hearing you all right?


Carl Conner: Well, I donít know if Iím agreeing to a cap or not, thatís why Iím saying, thatís why I asked the question you know, I hate to be a burr in this thing, but I would like to at least read the contract in itís entirety before I agree to make any changes, especiallyin compensation areas.


Mr. Larson: I understand.


Don Williams:So why donít we come back February 14th, and I donít know, Carl would you want somebody here from his office, I know Mr. Larson came down from Indianapolis, butÖÖ


Carl Conner: I have his card with his numbers, I will call him if I have any questions, so I personally do not see any need for anyone to come back and you know our attorney can, if there is some issues, he can deal with you.


Mr. Larson: Iím going to leave all those copies with you, Iíve got one here that I was reading from and Iíll give that to Jim.


Don Williams:They had a signature line on them, but I know we donít sign them all.


Mr. Larson:Yeah, I signed them all and authorized it by my company, so they could be executed like this, but if there were changes to be made, I would come back with completed copies, but since these are made and signed, I would just as soon leave them here in case per chance they become executed.


Don Williams:Mr. President I move that we table this to accommodate Commissioner Connerís desire to read through it until February 14, 200.


Carl Conner:Iíll second


Motion was made and seconded to table MS-4 contract until February 14, 2007. Motion passed 3-0.


The Board thanked Mr. Larson.


Don Williams:Can I ask you a question, once we approve the contract, do you have any rough guess how long it will take to get this drainage plan completed? I know itís going to take a while, butÖÖ..


Mr. Larson: Yeah, it think it will probably take about 7 months is the time element cause that is specified in the contract language itself. Weíll be getting on it right away. As a matter of fact, weíre doing a couple of things here, weíre also moving forward with the rate analysis with Umbaugh and thatís going to require some activity from the Board and the Commissioners and the Surveyor as well as Umbaugh. My nest activity on that is to coordinate with the auditorís office and Manatron, an agreement to do a database extraction for us and there may be a dollar value cause they wouldnít tell me exactly what it cost, but they charge per hour to extract those dates.


Don Williams:Is this County information that they have?


Mr. Larson: This is County information that is digitized on the property cards, so that we can come up with the average home size and then the non-residential path units come up with the multipliers so we can see what kind of revenues can be produced. So that process is going on right now and while weíre doing that it would be nice to initiate the activity here and with spring coming up there are certain obvious advantages to be working on things as spring unfolds, as far as identification and prioritization of properties.



Jim Niemeyer: Next is Green Springs Valley with Manny Rydholm.


Mr. Rydholm:Iím Manny Rydholm from 8100 Larch Place North in Green Springs, Iíve been here before and just mainly here for some follow up on some things that had gotten started around drainage problems in our development. I had talked with Jim yesterday and one of the items that was being worked on is problems with the way that the drainage was done at the apartments, Ped-Corp I guess owns the apartments. Jim told me yesterday, I think that he had gotten a report back from them about what they proposed to do to correct the problems that were identified there. I guess Iím just wondering how long before and I think Jim said he was going to turn it over to the Engineerís for an evaluation and I was wondering how long it would take before we would get an answer.


Jim Niemeyer: Weíll probably do that next week and get those questions or revisions resolved on paper and then we can start physically going after them to make the necessary changes and that shouldnít be too long unless they get stubborn.


Mr. Rydholm: So hopefully, Iím assuming the proposal is done proposed the changes they were going to make and your going to evaluate to see that in your opinion or the Engineerís opinion it gets the job done.


Jim Niemeyer:Correct


Mr. Rydholm: Okay, so in a couple of weeks hopefully weíll have an evaluation done that whatís agreeable and whatís satisfactory and then itís a matter of how quickly can you get the schedule and get it done or they get it done, cause they are going to be doing the work, right?


Jim Niemeyer: Yes


Mr. Rydholm: So, I assume at that point we will press them for some kind of time line to get that completed.


Jim Niemeyer:Right


Mr. Rydholm: We also talked through that area of making that a legal ditch from the exit of our development on over to Edwards or basically extending Edwards ditch back and I understand thatís beingÖÖ


Jim Niemeyer:What weíve done isÖthe Legal Description for the property line has been completed and weíve also prepared a plat of it and Iíve turned that all over to Mr. Zengler.


David Zengler: And I have prepared a petition that Iíll hand to the Surveyor today for an Edwards drain extension and we can send that to the adjoining land owners and see if we can get some signatures. I think that you have to have 10% or more acreage or 25% or more of assessed evaluation. It would seem to me that the Bell Oaks-Schnucks People will sign at that and it probably takes care of that issue.


Phil Baxter: Dave, is it written in the agreement if this goes through that the County has a right to enter their property or the right of way?


David Zengler: Yeah, it would beÖif itís made a legal drain then youíve got by statute youíve got the means both to enter and also youíve got the right of way.


Phil Baxter: But is it written in there before they sign it so they know what theyíre signing?


David Zengler: Well, I just used the regular petition and theyíll get a copy of that, I donít know if that will help them or not.


Carl Conner: Am I reading this correctly, itís going to be on the backside of the Wind Tree Villas? Is that correct?


David Zengler: Yes


Carl Conner:This has to come before the Commissioners also, doesnít it?


David Zengler:Yeah, this would just be the first step would be to get somebody to petition to do that.


Don Williams:Is there aÖ..what about the cleaning of the ditch going through that subdivision, weíre not looking at making that a legal drain?


David Zengler:As far as I know this is what Iíve been handed so far.


Don Williams:Because I know that ditch between those properties going through the subdivision itself, I havenít looked at it in the last couple of months though.


Mr. Rydholm:Itís††† you know there are a few spots that need it and of course there is no doubt it would help if you had it totally cleaned out and widened, but thereís a lot of issues with houses being built close to Öit makes it really difficult to do. So, hopefully by doing the other and I know I have a little apprehension, Schnucks has done a halfdecent job of keeping it clean and Iím hoping that if we get it legal that we get the same kind of thing, you know done to this, improved and kept clean.


Jim Niemeyer:I donít think weíll have a problem over there at Wind Tree, I spoke with their building manager or contract foreman or whatever and I think that the best I can gather from him we would get along all right. It does need to be cleaned out, it is pretty bad but there again weíre due to the properties weíre limited to how far or how wide we can go and itís just not going to be possible unless we dig up some buildings.

Don Williams:Well, and another thing you know once we get our study done and we get that everything evaluated then even though itís not a legal drain weíll be able to go in and help clean out some of that. Perhaps, maybe not with heavy equipment we may have to do it a different way, butÖ..


Mr. Rydholm: Do we have any idea time frame like this petition you talked about?


Don Williams:Weíre looking at probably 7-8 months to get that in place, so weĎre not looking at a short time as far as well your talking about the petition for the legal drain, that wonít take that long.How long?


David Zengler: Well, as soon as we can get some signatures on it, itsÖ..oh 2-3 month process.


Carl Conner: Thatís from beginning to end. Thatís from the time we started it until it is declared as a legal drain.


David Zengler: I mean, there are some built in time periods that you canít do it to quick.


Don Williams:Cause we have to have a hearing and all the adjoining property owners have to be notified andÖ..we have hoops we have to jump through.


Carl Conner: Weíre not dealing with too many property owners.


Mr. Rydholm: No, there are very few there.


Carl Conner:That will make it simple.


Mr. Rydholm: Okay, and then the other question, I got in a little late on this other discussion so I really didnít understand what was going on there, but the Edwards Ditch itself, when we talk about from what was the Edwards Ditch or the start of it and then cleaning that out. All this other stuff gets done, if we donít have some relief down stream for the water thatís coming to it, itís not going to do us much good. Then all that needs to be done but and I understand that prioritiesÖ..weíre not in the position to set priorities for when things are going to get done yet and that sort of thing, but do we have any

IdeaÖÖ.I guess I would just ask the group to give a lot of consideration to the need in that area, I donít have a good feel for all the other needs. Iím not even sure who makes all the decision around what gets done first. But there is a lot of people affected by the poor drainage from that point on out.




Jim Niemeyer:Since you said what you just said, that brings up a problem we had about two meetings back, two gentlemen from the Fieldstone Subdivision came in and they were expressing concern about the water that was flowing through that area after it rained and not necessarily a heavy rain, an inch or two. Mr. Conners asked me to make a report and that is due today, so I did, I went out and I was even out when it rained but I also took one of the members of that subdivision with me. We went through the whole area, so with that having been said I asked Sean to make us a map showing where the problem is and it starts right there(pointing on map) right at that point and the area there around Schnucks and that whole area is a large watershed. (Jim discussed the area on the drawing and that it went up to Edwards Ditch). Iíd like to have Sean point out what we have done here.


Sean: Basically, we just kind of tracked where the water would leave from Fieldstone Subdivision next to Beaver Creek Apartments which would pass the water coming out of Green Springs Valley and Springview Apartments. It all basically runs into Edwards Ditch at some point, right now none of it is actually a regulated drain but they all run into the regulated drain and from there it runs up Edwards 22,000 feet hits Weinsheimer, where Weinsheimer meets Gardner-Webb Ditch. Weinsheimer is 12,300 feet and then it hits about half way into Pigeon Creek and just Pigeon Creek inside Warrick County is 32,500 feet so weíre talking 13 miles from Lincoln Avenue by Beaver Creek Apartments just to this point where Pigeon Creek leaves Warrick County 13 miles from where the water goes and from there I have no idea how many miles Pigeon Creek is in Vanderburgh County. We find it most beneficial to start at Pigeon Creek which you guys wonít see the work close to your house, but I believe itís going to be most beneficial to start where we thing the majority of the problems are in Pigeon Creek and we do know of one large log jam off of Stevensonís Station that weíre going to start working on. But itís one of those things where weíre limited by funds right now, weíre looking at other options but itís about 3-4 times what our annual budget is just to clean the 13 miles of what needs to be cleaned out.


Mr. Rydholm: Are we looking at other ways to fund it, it sounds like we have a huge issue and that whole thing needs done, it canít be done to quickly obviously.


Jim Niemeyer: We do have the capacity or donít have it necessarily at this moment but part of this meeting was about Storm Water Quality Management which will provide us with funding that we need and weíre also preparing a bond issue that will be floated it will be a drainage bond which wonít be affected by the rest of the County, it will stand strictly on its own and we donít know how much weíll need because in speaking with the Drainage Board Members here, I think if I heard what I heard is correct, I am going to get an assignment to put all this together so that it could be incorporated into that bond. I only have $200,000.00 a year and that is not going to take care of it, it barely gets the garden dug but I think I feel positive that things will work out for us.


Don Williams:And theÖ.weíve told you this before, the Ohio Township there is two major areas there, the area where you all are and the area where Lincoln, gateway and those subdivisions, those are, I think Iím safe in saying it and maybe Iím speaking out of turn but those are our two major drainage priorities.


Sean:And both those areas drain into Pigeon Creek.


Don Williams:And that is why when we do get the drainage bond, hopefully we can agree and weíll have an amount to take care of both situations and if that is the case then we can get it done more quickly. He certainly isnít going to get it done with $200,000.00 a year we all know that.


Mr. Rydholm: Yeah, obviously if heís saying it will be 3-4 times his annual budget you know if we donít do something else weíre talking 3-4 years and then you would have to start over.


Don Williams:You all may have to bring your wives and children to a Council Meeting to get that approved. They did 1.9 for softball for kids maybe theyíll help us out a little bit and get several hundred citizens property to drain.


Mr. Rydholm: Do we have any feel at all about how quickly this process can flow before we talk about trying to get all this together so we can get a package and I guess get our arms around the necessary funding so we will have an idea what the bond issue might have to look like, is there any ideas at all?


Don Williams:The first thing we know is that itís going to take us 3 months to get the legal drain and I donít know where to go from there. I donít know the time frame, but I know one thing itís not going to be quick enough to keep everybody happy, it never is.


Carl Conner: We attempted in my opinion a interim source that could have expedited a lot of this work until such time we got a bond issue floated because a bond issue is going to take us some time to get that accomplished and it was very simply a tax that we presently have in this county which is very low and we wanted to maximize that tax out and use that additional tax money which would have created about 1.9 million dollars and we even had some sampling done relative to the impact upon property tax rates and Iíll just give you a good example. Like one of them came in at $9.18 every six months there were no substantial increases and we were totally denied. So this Board and the Commissioners have been working and looking at every effort and every opportunity we can to raise money to address your needs and the other needs over there. I have been over there a number of times walking around houses that I got water over my ankles and everything else and you know what that is, because your neighborhood is one of them. So now that is one of the reasons we are trying this bond issue and I would ask our attorney, weíre probably looking if everything went according to the process or the procedures according to hoyle without any obstacles, weíre probably looking at what 6-7 months before we can have a bond issue floated, I would think.


David Zengler:Yes and I would think at this point the major consideration weíre still waiting on is some of the engineering. I think that once that gets in place youíre looking at 3-4 months probably to do the actual bond issue and they donít need the engineering done completely but they need I would say estimates and so on.


Carl Conner:I guess my comment would be is that we would start tomorrow if we had the money available but we do not have the ability to raise the money and as I said we have tried every avenue to date other than this bond issue yet and our efforts have failed because the County Council has not saw fit to provide the funding.


Mr. Rydholm:I would just appreciate yourÖ.keep driving in that direction we need it badly.


Carl Conner: Iím sure that I can speak for all three of us, we are going to do everything we possibly can to address your needs in whatever way we can in an expeditious manner.


Don Williams:And I have spoken with some of the Council members and they do understand the drainage needs down in Ohio Township in your area as well as the area down there so I mean they have a sensitive ear to that so weíll see how that goes but you know something that we donít have a lot of option we all know we have to do it.


Phil Baxter:We need to move along here.


Jim Niemeyer: What we can do and we are planning to do this start to take that drainage way and ride it out with our 4-wheeler and make estimates of what needs to be done such as locate log jams and see what needs to be cleaned. We could get it ready for bidding prospects.




Phil Baxter:Okay, we have the claims amounting to $1,870.66.


Don Williams:I move we pay the claims.


Carl Conner:Second


Motion to pay claims and second. Motion carried 3-0.


Phil Baxter: Is there anything else?


Jim Niemeyer:Is there anyone else out there that wants to speak?


Don Williams:Thatís his job.


Jim Niemeyer: Sorry




Gerry Lewis:Gerry Lewis, Parks Department, we talked to you last week about the property out on Roth Road, I noticed itís on your agenda, I just wanted to bring you up to date. Morley and Associates have completed their topo on that property but we havenít received the official report as yet. A letter has been sent by Morley to the Corp of Engineers to see if they have any jurisdiction over that ditch and we donít have a report back on that either. We should have that information at your next meeting in February.

Any question? Thank you.




John Berendsen:Good afternoon, Iím John Berendsen from Fieldstone Properties Association, we were very interested in hearing Mandy and his problems and it was excellent feedback that we are getting from Jim and the Commissioners. It is a priority we just donít know where that priority is yet but it has not been forgotten. I did spend some time with Jim on a rainy day and went around the whole area there and I really appreciate the time Jim has spent taking me around and having dialog as to what all the issues are. Unfortunately our little drainage ditch behind Fieldstone started out just a little agricultural drainage ditch and now as weíve said before itís being used almost as a commercial ditch with all the building that is going on there. Bob Bean and I are here again just to show the concern and urgency that we have, it really needs to be taken care of.


Jim Niemeyer:One thing I might mention they might achieve immediate results if that ditch was cleaned out but there are easements that run through that ditch and it may be that the apartment complex would be responsible for it. We donít have any legal authority to get in that ditch to clean it out but that would no doubt help the drainage characteristics on a short basis but not for a long term fix.


Carl Conner:†† My question is then should we look at possibly making that a legal drain also whereby throughÖ.


Jim Niemeyer:It wonít take much because it runs right into Edwards Ditch.


Don Williams:Just make it a lateral.


Sean Owen:But there are quite a few houses just like in Greensprings that are really close to the ditch with fences andÖÖ


John Berendsen: I think weíve got 11 properties just in Fieldstone alone that are right there and I understand that to make it a public easement there is not enough ground available to allow it to fit into the requirements of a public easement.


Jim Niemeyer:You canít put a 75-foot right of way cause I think about the best we could get would be about 20-25 feet from crest to crest.


Sean Owen:I think even 25 feet is pushing it.


Carl Conner:Let me ask you this are there land owners that are members of your association that would be willing to sign off to give us the opportunity to make that a legal drain so we could correct the drainage problems that apparently they have a great deal of concern for now and in the future.


John Breendsen: Well, itís difficult to answer that question without knowing how much property they are going to have to give up.


Carl Conner:Well, itís basically not, in my opinion from a legal standpoint, yes youíre giving up something but when youíre looking at it from a realistic standpoint youíre not giving anything up except access when you have a drainage problem whereby we have legal entry to correct it and the county is paying for it.


Don Williams:We could instead of a regular legal drain we could go with an urban drain which is much less than 75-feet there, I think weíre getting in the area of 30-feet or perhaps even less.


David Zengler: We can go down to 25 on each side, 25 is minimum.


Carl Conner: I was going to make the suggestion that you poll your neighbors and the members of your association to see if they would be willing to entertain that as an idea and then come back to Jim and let him know and we can handle it at the next meeting or at least get it initiated.


Robert Bean:Excuse me, Iím Robert Bean of Fieldstone Property Owner Association, there is a 20-foot water easement there now, next to that is a 10-foot electrical easement, next to that there is a 10-foot sewer easement, next to that is 2-foot from my house. So if it was 50-foot I would lose the back bedrooms on my home, (laughter) but on 25-foot I would just lose the trees and I donít know how much that would bring them into the electrical easement thatís where it would be, but there is a possibility on the other side the apartments do not have an easement there, and with the ditch and the berm that they have in there. They could possibly put in a 5-foot correction on the easement on that side. As far as the library is concerned there is room there and there is room at the bank and all the way down to the highway, but if you stay on the west side of it, it gets into the video store and a lot of others. But I think it is clear on the right side.


Carl Conner: Well, I would suggest Jim that you take a look at that and see if thatís an approach we need to consider if itís going to help the drainage there.


Jim Niemeyer:Thatís about the only thing we can do unless we pour the whole thing full of concrete.


Don Williams:The other option and we have to close here is for the homeowners association to get with the apartment owners and work out some kind of a mutual contributory deal for you all to clean your own ditch cause we canít do it unless we have some legal ability to do it.


Mr. Berendsen: That is a possibility because obviously they have access to it and they are draining into that ditch which compounds the problem. Yes, itís Fieldstone Property ownerís ditch but itís a much larger problem than just our property owners.


Mr. Bean:The ditchÖ.the property line speaking specifically of my property the stakes on my property line in the ditch are actually at this moment in the middle of the basin of the ditch and so part of their property is being used as the waterway as well at the time. Now how that manages on down south all the way to the highway, I donít know for sure. But in my area itís that way and mine is washing out so bad into my yard where the water flows, Iíve always teased my friends that talk about going on vacation that Iíve got a 10-foot jon boat and Iím going to take a cruise behind my house. But again it washes so fast and comes up in the yard half way to the house passed the power box and everything and the power box usually sits in water and it washes the bank out on the ditch next to my house and Iíve had several truckloads of big rock brought in and dumped and I have to hand place them in there to hold down some of the washing but now it is beginning to wash out under them and under the power box.


Phil Baxter: We need to move along we have another meeting here in five minutes but if you want to poll your association and get back to Jim, weíll see if we can go from there.


Mr. Berendsen:We need to bring in the apartment complex also as they are part of the problem and the solution.


Carl Conner:If you make it a legal drain then your not going to have this problem in the future because of the fact that county has responsibility, county has access then we can get in there and do what we need to get done. Something you need to keep in mind.


Don Williams:I move we adjourn.


Carl Conner:Second


Motion was made to adjourn and seconded. Motion passed 3-0.