MARCH 28, 2007
COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM
Boonville, In. 47601
The Warrick County Drainage Board met n regular session with President Phillip H. Baxter presiding, also in attendance were Carl Jay Conner, Vice-President; Don Williams, Secretary; James E. Niemeyer, Surveyor and David K. Zengler, Attorney for Board. Also present was Sean M. Owen.
Minutes were recorded and transcribed by Cheryl D. Embry.
Audience attendance was Mike Phelps, Manny Rydholm, Gerald Lewis and John Samuels.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Don Williams:† Mr. President, I move we approve the minutes of February 28, 2007.
Carl Conner: Second.
Motion was made, seconded and approved 3-0.
Jim Niemeyer: The next item is a request from Mr. Don Rexing to install a larger pipe in the legal drain across his property and I donít see him here.
Phil Baxter:† Is that the Stevenson Station area?
Jim Niemeyer:† Itís on the Howard-Williams Ditch on 62, yeah its east of the John Deere implement dealer.
Phil Baxter: Okay, I know where youíre talking about.
Jim Niemeyer:† The culvert isÖitís getting narrower and itís just really getting too small for him to get his equipment across, but if you recall at the last meeting, we told him that he would need to have it designed or resized you know to fit the needs.
Phil Baxter: To your knowledge, do you know if heís talked to Bobby?
Jim Niemeyer:† No, I donít.
Carl Conner:† I
would make a motion that we remove it from the agenda until Mr. Rexing makes
contact with the
Don Williams:† Second
Motion was made and seconded and passed with a vote of 3-0.
Jim Niemeyer:† The next request is for the LakeRidge Subdivision, Mr. Sexton requests permission to install a fence in the drainage easement. He is not here also.
Sean Owen: His contractor contacted me and I told him that one of them needed to be here.
Carl Conner:† I
make the same motion as I just did for item 1, remove it until such time that
they make arrangements with the
Don Williams:† Iíll second the motion.
Motion was made and seconded and passed with a vote of 3-0.
Phil Baxter: Okay, next is claims. We received a second one did you get it, Carl?
Carl Conner: Yes
Don Williams:†† Hydromax Services for a beaver dam, where is that in the Lincoln Trail area?
Itís off of
Don Williams:† Thatís all right, Jim, I just wanted an explanation of where it was at because we have had some problems up on Lincoln Trail.
Jim Niemeyer: We need to do a bunch ofÖ.I am going to have a trapper meet with me on Friday because there are several beavers along there and they are getting into all of those big culverts. They have really backed up a lot of water and I have been in contact with the State, Indiana Department of Transportation to help me out but I donít get any response, but I think Iíll go ahead and get the beaver removed because unless we do that everytime we go back in there to clean they will rebuild.
Phil Baxter:† In addition to that, Don and Carl remember talking 2-3 months ago about that water blaster that is up at the County highway, that is what Hydromax used to clean this out with.
Don Williams:† Mr. President, I would move that we approve the claims in the amount of $3,185.03.
Carl Conner:† Second
Motion was made and seconded, the vote to pass was 3-0.
Manny Rydholm: Obviously Iíve been here a number of times,
my name is Manny Rydholm and I reside at
We were legalizing the ditch from our development, weíve already had the proposal to extend Edwards and then trying to get it legalized, have we gotten any additional replies, Jim?
Jim Niemeyer: No, the only reply I received is from Wyntree Villas, theyíre association president and I did receive a letter from Schnucks and they are taking it under advisement, but they indicated that they would be willing to cooperate but thatís as far as it went. I did not hear anything from Ped-Corp or Springview Apartments, if you wish. No reply was received from them. I did send them a letter recently last week or the week before and I addressed their earlier response to the problems we pointed out to them as well as those that were indicated by Bernardin & Lochmueller. The only thing that I can see that they have done so far is that they did install gutter drains at least on building 9, nothing else has been done, I have not received any responses to my inquiry. Henry (Nodarse) pointed out some things that they needed to address.
Manny Rydholm:† What additional follow up is intended in respect to that cause I think we said that they are going toÖÖÖÖ.
Jim Niemeyer: Well, Iíll just wait probably until next week and if I donít hear anything Iíll call them or fire them off a nastier letter or have David do it, heís good at that and weíll get some response.
Manny Rydholm:† I guess the intention is that, that still will be done. I donít want to see it drag out too awful long.
Jim Niemeyer:† The only thing mechanically they need to do is install another orifice in that detention pond because when it was originally designed it did not take into account south of the apartment complex, the area where you live and Mrs., Potts, that wasnít taken into consideration so by leaving that out it could be pointed out that the detention pond was designed too small and according to surveying measurements it is too small.
Manny Rydholm: So part of what they are supposed to be doing is enlarging that also?
Jim Niemeyer: Correct whatever deficiencyís that there are.
Manny Rydholm:† Okay and youíre saying that if you donít see any action by next week you will be re-contacting them to maybe through your lawyer to put some additional pressure. Okay appreciate that.
What on the legal ditch? I know there is no pressure on them to sign anything at this point butÖ.
Jim Niemeyer:† I donít know that we can make them sign it.
Manny Rydholm:† But other than trying to make contact with the apartments for example to see Ö..They have never been very cooperative unfortunately but at least make some additional effort to see if theyíre having any intentions to sign it or not sign it.
Jim Niemeyer: Yeah, weíll have to clear that out through David as he is a better letter writer than I am.
Manny Rydholm:† Well, I would appreciate some effort at least to close that issue so to speak.
Carl Conner:† It brings up a question that I have for our Attorney, Dave if there is a lack of cooperation of adjacent landowners do we have any legal options?
David Zengler: Well, as far as making it a legal ditch I donít thinkÖ.You would have to at least get somebody voluntarily to meet the threshold †of what the statute requires and I canít tell you off theÖ.itís like 50% I think of the assessed value, something like that. So unless we can get somebody that meets the threshold of meeting the requirements thereís not a whole lot we can do. But I think Schnucks probably does itself, I think we discussed that if we could get Schnucks to sign, I think then weíve met it because of their assessed valuation.
Carl Conner:† So our opportunities Jim is good to get cooperation out of Schnucks?
Jim Niemeyer:† I think so. Iím going to go to the Area Planning Commission meeting when there is a vote coming up about expanding the number of parking lots or reducing them and there is going to be a number of people there, I believe. I heard and I guess this is through the grapevine that they were planning toÖ..going to use two detention ponds, but anyway it makes me think that with the addition that they are going to put in there, you know whatever goes into that ditch behind them will have to be addressed as well as the drain that goes under Bell Road because it all leaves there and it all goes down the highway and goes under the highway, so there will have to be a whole sequence of events analyzed, I think we can help there.
Manny Rydholm: Edwards Ditch is there anything taking place there on that ditch as far as cleaning any part of it orÖÖÖ..
Jim Niemeyer: No, we havenít done that and Iíll tell
you why, I mean we can go in there and do that, but I think we ought to spend
just a little time on Pigeon Creek because that is where the real rub is. Iím
not saying that Edwards Ditch doesnít need some cleaning, as well as Weinsheimer
because they are all part of the system and the whole length of that project is
over 60,000 feet and that takes us up to
Manny Rydholm:† It just seems like a lot of work wasnít done near the end there on Libbert Road there, widening† that out a little bit down to the underpass under the road in that area might add a little bit of capacity if we cleaned it out and widened it out at least. I know it doesnít take care of the problem but it might relieve that corner a little bit.
Jim Niemeyer:† It does need some cleaning, I donít deny that but it just depends which end we want to go through first cause we do know that there is a large block in Pigeon Creek by Stevenson Station Road and itís a big one and we can go in there and do that and then I think it would behoove us to look at all the culverts and drains in legal drains to make sure that they are clean and that would give us an immediate effect.
Manny Rydholm:† But there arenít any plans to do that yet though?
Jim Niemeyer:† No, but weíll be doing that in a couple of months.
Jim Niemeyer: We did have a kick-off meeting for the Warrick County Storm Water Management Plan and Mr. Michael Phelps from Commonwealth Engineering brought these by for us to review and comment but we donít need to comment today, but this is the start and we are going to have to begin operations.
Michael Phelps with Commonwealth, I donít know how much you actually
want me to say before youíve had the opportunity to read through the minutes,
but we did have a 2 Ĺ hour kick-off meeting last Thursday and I think it was a
very good meeting in that we addressed some of the early priorities that we
believe need to take place. One of the ideas up front was the primary focus of
the meetings was going to take this department of Storm Water Management that has
been established by ordinance and actually turn it into an operating entity and
in order to do that we identified two basic criteria with sub-criteria
underneath. First off we have to get the right structure established for the
department in order to have the funding and to give them the ability to take on
the projects that we are gong to be talking about as we develop the master
plan. The second being that we need to develop some operational guidelines as
to how this department is going to work and for instance this is being handled
a lot through the Surveyorís† Office,
what is going to be the distribution of responsibilities. There is a lot in
common and there could be a lot of differences how the two operate and so weíre
going to have to sit down and figure out how that works. One of the things we
wanted to do based on meetings weíve had with the Drainage Board before is to
make sure that weíre documenting tasks that are assigned to Commonwealth as we
have these meetings and after the six pages of meetings summary you will see a
yellow sheet and this is a sheet that we developed during the meeting itself
and it is a list of those tasks that we agreed that Commonwealth would
undertake from the kick-off meeting date of March 22nd until April
26th which is the date of our next meeting. And just to run through
the list very quickly, Don Larson is going to meet with Manatron, weíve got to
make sure that the information we need in order to establish the rates is in
the system already and that we can get to that data from a data mining process.
If upgrade software is necessary, Don is going to find out and report back to
us, but weíre hoping that weíll be able to use existing data and existing
software in order to do that. Don and I are also going to work on helping Jim
and Sean develop budgets, if this utility is put in place, if a rate structure
is put into place very quickly it is still going to be well over a year before
any revenue is actually collected and one of the issues that weíre going to
have to deal with is how do we find funding for this department for the next
year. Weíre going to work on a preliminary prioritization matrix, as we develop
the master plan portion of this there are going to be capital improvements that
we identify as needing to be completed. How can we set up an objective system
of ranking these so that no one can say weíre playing favorites anywhere in the
county. Weíll be working on that over a course of a few meetings to put
something in place. Brenton Hausiner who is on our staff at Commonwealth is our
GIS person, weíre going to meet with Sean on April 5th to talk about
what WTH is putting into place here in Warrick County and make sure that as we
develop the information it slides into your system. Weíre also going to start
reviewing drainage infrastructure data that the
Don Williams:† Why does it have to be at 9:30?
Mr. Phelps:† That was
just the time that we threw out, itís actually a time that is convenient for
Don Larson to come down from
Don Williams:† I would prefer it to be in the afternoon about 1 or 2, that would be my preference, that is why I was not at the last one as I am in class in the morning.
Mr. Phelps:† I donít see why we couldnít do that, it was more important to put these meetings on Thursdays since it was the day after the Drainage Board and Commissioners met. The time was just a convenient time for Don to get down from Indy but I donít think he would object to the afternoon.
Don Williams:† If it needs to be in the morning, so be it.
Mr. Phelps: I have no reasons why it canít be in the afternoons and I am sure that Don will be more than happy to change that.
Don Williams:† Any time after 1:00 or after.
Mr. Phelps: I donít see that he will object he has enough time to make any adjustments to his calendar.
Don Williams:† Jim you will let me know if there is any change?
Jim Niemeyer: Yes sir.
The Board thanked Mr. Phelps.
Jim Niemeyer:† †Mr. Sexton has arrived or the contractor for Mr. Sexton.
Don Williams:† We have to put it back on the agenda since we took it off. Jim, you need to let the President run the meeting cause we canít justÖwe have to put it back on the agenda in order to take it cause it was removed.
Phil Baxter: It was removed from the agenda a while ago.
Jim Niemeyer:† So we have to do that in two weeks?
Don Williams:† No, we can do it now its just a matter of a motion.
Phil Baxter: It has to be put back on the agenda, would you like to make the motion?
Don Williams:† Sure, I would be pleased to, I move that we bring the Lakeridge Subdivision with Mr. Sexton at his request back on the agenda for today.
Carl Conner:† Second.
Motion was made, seconded and passed with a 3-0 vote.
Jim Niemeyer:† Would you state your name?
John Samuel:† My name
is John Samuel and I operate a fence company out of
Don Williams:† Is this a solid structure?
Mr. Samuel:† No, sir itís a 3 & 13 16th between a 3 quarter inch bars. I went there today and there doesnít seem to be an underground culvert, I donít know what your legend here is on that, but where it says its at there is not any swale or anything cut.
Don Williams:† When it comes to legal drains we have a 75-foot easement on either side of the ditch.
Sean Owen:† This is a drainage easement in Lakeridge Crossing and there is already a fence there on the neighbors and you are just going to cross and connect.
Don Williams:† Well, the question I have is how much water would this fence obstruct or would it?
Mr. Samuel:† Well, to be honest with you the way the property is that actual drainage is running right where the neighbors fence is, I mean there is not a swale cut or there is no underground culvert, I donít think, they just call it drainage and itís 15-foot inside his property. But his property thereís no cuts or anything, the actual ground slopes off to the point of where the property line is and the neighbor already has a wood fence and itís probably been there for 10 years. Itís in the Briarcliff addition. Mr. Sexton has the last lot of Lakeridge before the Briarcliff Subdivision starts. May I approach the Board?
Mr. Samuels showed the Board a plan of the easement, property lines and where the fence was going to go. He explained that the neighbor has a wooden fence going all along the back berm and going down the property line. The neighbors have agreed that the fences can connect.
Phil Baxter:† Has anyone looked at this situation?
Sean Owen:† Yes, with the type of fence it wouldnít make any type of impedence to any surface drainage.
Don Williams:† Mr. President, I move that we approve Mr. Sextonís request.
Carl Conner:† Second
Motion was made and seconded, the vote to approve was 3-0.
Gerry Lewis: I am up here on behalf of my son,
Jim Niemeyer:† The thing is that we have on our map that it doesnít appear to be that way that the legal drain ends south and what I understood was that we would have to declare that a legal drain from your sonís property south to where it starts up.
Mr. Lewis:† Actually itís called Pecka Ditch and the way I understood it 10 years ago, it definitely is a legal ditch it drains from Castle Jr. High SchoolÖÖ
Jim Niemeyer:† Thatís right.
Mr. Lewis:† Well, I donít know what the question is, but there is two problems, one is the one troy addressed with you and there is another problem on Oak Grove, there is a huge pile of rock across the ditch blocking the ditch, the water canít get up through there and itís flowing around my motherís property and washing out lots and lots of footage there.
Don Williams:† Where did the rock come from?
Mr. Lewis:† I think itís riprap that they put in the ditch on both sides of Oak Grove Road when they built the Mark Hendrickson Subdivision over there, I think Mark wanted to keep it from washing, so all that rock is washed down through that culvert on the south side of Oak Grove now and is just piled up in a great big pile that is probably as high as that table your sitting at. The water comes in there and hits that and flows toward my motherís house and washes that property out, so there is two problems, I wish you would address and I think theyíre both county problems, if theyíre not Iíd certainly like to know about it.
Phil Baxter:† If itís close to the road where we could reach it with a grade-all, the highway department could take care of cleaning the ditch out.
Mr. Lewis:† I would guess that itís close enough that you could do that.
Phil Baxter:† †But you say there is no record of a legal drain?
Jim Niemeyer:† Not on our maps, I looked it up and I donít have any problem with after the meeting we can go down there andÖÖ..
Don Williams:† You should be able to find out cause youíre getting paid for it or not one or the other, it should be on the record.
Jim Niemeyer: It doesnít show on our WTH maps.
Phil Baxter:† If you donít care check and see what you can come up with.
Jim Niemeyer: It runs right into Summer-Pecka Ditch just like he says.
Phil Baxter: Do you have anything to add Carl, since that is your district?
Carl Conner: I think the situation with the rock there adjacent to the corner, we donít have any problem taking care of cause that is County Road Right-of-Way and we would have a responsibility there, but on the other part thatís questionable whether or not itís a Legal Drain. We need to get that established, I think anyway, before we go on private property.
Mr. Lewis: Well, the County has already been on private property Carl and they are the ones that created the problem. There was no problem with that ditch, it was half the size until the County completely reworked it at their expense, when they did that, we have had nothing but problems since then and especially since Mark Hendrickson put in the subdivision or the commercial park on the north side, where the bank is at.†††††††††††
Carl Conner: Oh the new bank, Iím in the wrong
location, your talking about on Oak Grove, I was thinking behind
Mr. Lewis: Well, thatís part of the problem, but the rock pile Iím talking about is right there by Mark Hendricksonís bank on Oak Grove.
Carl Conner: So itís in the road Right-of-Way?
Mr. Lewis:† I think it is.
Carl Conner:† Okay, we can take care of that but isnít the question of whether or not a part of that drainage is a legal drain or not isnít that on private property?
Mr. Lewis:† Itís on my property, but I donít think there is any question whether itís legal or not because the County has already come in and at their expense re-worked it. I mean I didnít want them to, I was opposed to it butÖÖ
Carl Conner:† Who were the Commissioners in office because I donít remember coming on your property doing anything?
Mr. Lewis:† No, it was Dave Rector, Jack Pike and Larry Barr.
Carl Conner:† Thatís probably been about what 6-7 years ago?
Mr. Lewis:† I would guess closer to 10 years ago. But they did it and that leads me to believe it is a County maintained ditch and always has been to the best of my knowledge and I have lived there since 1945. I think the county has always maintained that ditch, I donít think anybody else has, but if it doesnít show on your records, I donít know why it doesnít, but can we get that straightened out, I mean it needs to be fixed one way or another because it continues to wash bad. Every time you go by there, thereís a big chuck of dirtís caved into that ditch.
Carl Conner:† I think that if the problem was created by the County whether it was a legal drain or not, I guess what Iím understanding you to say is that you feel like we have a responsibility to correct it.
Mr. Lewis: Well, as a taxpayer I would think so, but legally I donít know what the status is, but they did create the problem and thereís no question about that, I mean you can go back in your records and seeÖJerry Aigner I believe is the guy that was hired to clean that out and he can tell you.
Carl Conner:† How long has it been that way, Gerry, 6 years 10 years?
Mr. Lewis:† I think itís been close to 10 years that itís been a problem and its really getting bad now, I think it may be partly caused by that rock pile.
Carl Conner:† My suggestion would be you know if Phil and Don are in support of it we could go ahead and have the county highway department go out and at least take care of the part that is in the county road right of way, the drainage, I would like to at least research the records first to determine whether or not that portion is a legal drain and if itís been there for 10 years it wouldnít hurt to wait another week or two to give is time to do the research.
Mr. Lewis:† Thatís no problem, I just want to get my son off my back, Iím sure your all familiar with how that works.
Carl Conner: Oh absolutely..
Mr. Lewis:† Thank you
Phil Baxter Anything else?
Don Williams:† †Move to adjourn.
Carl Conner:† Second
Motion was made and seconded to adjourn and voted to pass 3-0.