APRIL 25, 2007

3:00 P.M.



The Warrick County Drainage Board met in regular session with President Phillip H. Baxter presiding; also in attendance were Carl Jay Conner, Vice-President; Don Williams, Secretary and James E. Niemeyer, Surveyor.


Also in attendance was Sean M. Owen, Deputy Surveyor.


Minutes were recorded and transcribed by Cheryl D. Embry.


Those present in the audience were John Kilmer, Jerry L. Gill, John Reiplinger, Tony Parrish, Dana Myers, Rick Martin, Henry Nodarse, Bill Bivins and Thomas Keith.


Phil Baxter:Warrick County Drainage Board April 25, 2007 will now come to order.




Phil Baxter: The first thing on the agenda is the approval of minutes from April 11, 2007.


Don Williams:Mr. President, I move that we approve the minutes for April 11th as submitted.


Carl Conner:Second


Motion was made and seconded to approve minutes. Motion passed 3-0.




Phil Baxter:Okay Jim.


Jim Niemeyer:The next item is the opening of bids to clean out and repair three legal drains, North Fork Ditch, Stacer & Willow Pond Ditch and Wires Ditch. We kind of have a situation if you want our attorney to open these bids.


Phil Baxter:Is he not going to be hereÖapparently?


Jim Niemeyer:No


Carl Conner:Is he still out of the Country? I personally donít have a problem with you opening the bids.


Jim Niemeyer:The second thing, I sent 4 bids out and I received 2. One of the contractors did not respond at all, the second one went to the field to make the field inspection and he only inspected one and decided not to go any farther and the other one bid on one project only and the fourth one bid on all three of them.


Don Williams:So, we only have one bid on two of the projects?


Jim Niemeyer:One bid covers all of the projects and the other one covers only one of them and there were no bids from the other two.


Don Williams:He doesnít have that all separated out so much for each ditch?


Jim Niemeyer:Yes, he does.


Carl Conner:I would suggest that we go ahead and have you open the bids.


Don Williams:We can always reject them and re-bid them if we need to.


Jim Niemeyer:Okay, this if for North Fork Ditch, Henry Bigge bid price for foot is $5.95 for 4200 feet of ditch total is $24,990.00.


Don Williams:Is that $24,900?


Jim Niemeyer:$24,990.00, its 4200 feet in length and it averages 25 to 30 feet in depth.

Iíll just take all of Henryís first. The next bid is for Willow Pond Ditch from Henry Bigge Excavating, it has a length of 620 feet and it s $2.75 per foot for a total of $1,705.00 and the second leg of that ditch covers 780 feet and it has a bid price of $2.10 per foot for a total of $1,638.00.

Aigner Construction has also bid on Stacer-Willow Pond Ditch and he has a bid to complete 1400 feet for a total bid of $6,500.00.


Don Williams:Is that for Willow Pond?


Jim Niemeyer:Yes, Stacer-Willow Pond.


Don Williams:In other words, he just put it all together.


Jim Niemeyer:Yes. The last bid is from Henry Bigge for cleaning of Wire Ditch, a total of 1400 feet for $4.25 per foot for a total of $5,950.00.


Don Williams:What was his, if you donít mind going back, on the first ditch what was his charge per foot, North Fork?


Jim Niemeyer:Bigge was 4200 feet and it was $5.95 per foot.


Carl Conner:How many contractors did we initially contact?

Jim Niemeyer:Four


Carl Conner:And we got one bid onÖ..


Jim Niemeyer:All three one bid for one project and two contractors did not bid at all.


Carl Conner:Then we had two contractors on this Stacer-Willow Pond Ditch.


Don Williams:What two refused, if I might ask?


Jim Niemeyer:One was Lechner from Jasper and the other one is Ryanís Excavating from Newburgh.


Don Williams:Was Warrick Excavating contacted?


Jim Niemeyer:No


Don Williams:Is there a reason for that?


Jim Niemeyer:No real reason other than I rely on what I hear to some extent, but I can send them all out.


Don Williams:I mean to me and I donít mean any dispersions on anyone, but it seems like the non-competitive bids are double what the competitive bids were per foot. I donít know if there is a reason for that, maybe the terrain orÖ.


Jim Niemeyer:Well, the one thing I can tell you about is for example the North Fork Ditch is a very deep and wide ditch and there were two explosions caused by high water and it caused a few hundred acres of farm land to be flooded and it is going to take quite a bit of time to repair that. Last yearÖ..this would be an extension of what we did last year up there and we worked until late at night. It takes a lot of care to do that and I guess anybody could do it butÖ..


Don Williams:They plan on rip rapping some of them areas in through there?


Jim Niemeyer: I think we can as they are all straight as an arrow. I think what we should do is seed it. Wire Ditch is kind of flat but it has a lot of meandering in it so that a lot of that has to be cut out and we need to lay the slopes back 2:1 on that.


Carl Conner:Looking at the bids on the Stacer-Willow, there is approximately $3,200.00 difference between the high bid and the low bid. Its $3,343.00 in total compared to $6,500.00 and based upon what our history has been with Mr. Bigge, which has been excellent and the fact that he is the only contractor that bid on all three of these projects. I really see no need to take these bids under advisement, but I would move that we award the North Fork Ditch to Henry Bigge in the amount of $24,990.00. That we award Stacer-Willow Pond Ditch to Henry Bigge for the total amount of $3,343.00 and we award Wires Ditch to Henry Bigge in the amount of $5,950.00.


Don Williams:Second.


Phil Baxter:I have a motion and a second, all in favor.


All voted aye, motion passed 3-0.




Jim Niemeyer: The next item is the drainage plan approval for Newburgh United Methodist Church.


Rick Martin:Good afternoon, Iím Rick Martin, Iím here representing Newburgh United Methodist Church. I have here with me Judy Masterson, a trustee with the church and Thomas Keith who is the Engineer on the project of Andy Easley Engineering. I believe that the drainage plan has been submitted and I believe that all the plans are in order, essentially what we have here is this is related to the special use permit that is pending before the Board of Zoning appeals for an addition onto the church. Iím sorry are you ready for me to proceed?


The Board told him to go ahead.


Mr. Martin: The drainage plan as proposed here would be to include approximately 5-foot wide berm along the southeastern corner of the south side and the east side of the property there abutting Pine Drive and Owens Drive to alleviate some of the present water concerns that are there as well as to alleviate any additional watershed that may be caused by the addition to the church building. The water would be held and then funneled to that southeast corner and metered out with a new release drainage structure and I believe it is in compliance with the ordinances of the County and we would ask that the County approve the drainage plan. Are there any questions?


Carl Conner: I just have one, what is this pending before the Board of Zoning appeal?


Mr. Martin: Special use exception to build the addition onto the church.


Phil Baxter:Any other questions?


Don Williams: We have a lot of water problems in this area as you know. Has your licensed engineer looked at this? Iím all for the project, but I want to make sure that anytime in this area that an engineer has signed off on it.


Mr. Keith: Mr. Easley has reviewed it and signed off on it.


Jim Niemeyer:But we havenít.


Mr. Keith:Right


Don Williams:And Iím all for the project, I want you to understand that, but we have major water problems down in this section of Ohio Township. I just want to make sure because we understand that water runs downhill and sometimes not a whole lot more than that and we need toÖÖis there some kind of urgency, are you on the agenda tonight?


Mr. Martin: Yes, we are on the agenda tonight and we would like to break ground as soon as possible to start construction so that we can have the addition finished by Easter of next year. So that is the plan and we were hoping to get the Drainage Board approval today and proceed on to the BZA tonight. It is my understanding and Mr. Keith can address the specifics of this if this actuallyÖ..this proposal actually alleviates some of the current problems that their having down there with drainage. So it improves the situation over what it is now even with the additional structure.


Mr. Keith:We will be detaining the water in a detention facility so we are slowing down what is currently going down the ditch along Broadview Subdivision.


Don Williams:So this is just a berm?


Jim Niemeyer:Yes, theyíre just adding new parking spaces is what their doing.


Mr. Keith: We are just creating a berm along this edge that will collect about 2 Ĺ feet of water here on a hard rain and then it will stay dry the rest of the time as it is now it is currently a wet area and weíre just taking advantage of that wet area to create a detention facility. So most of this water that comes down now will be catching most of this water, there is a small detention facility here, a ditch that runs along here, this is Dr. Freudenbergís property. It actually funnels onto our property, everybody has directed their water into this area, we are just taking advantage of that. We will put a swale along the backside here to take care of any of this runoff that is coming off the neighbors property so that we can get it to continue to the south.


Don Williams:Because weíve got problems in Broadview and along Pine Drive both as far as drainage problems.


Mr. Keith: And part of the problem is that the property is so flat. Iíve got pictures out there and there is a lot of dead grass and itís not because of anything that anybody has done, there is just no slope on the properties.


Don Williams:I donít disagree with that. I donít know how my colleagues feel about this issue, I would like to hear from them if they have any thoughts? My thought would be to approve it contingent upon a surveyorís inspection and just certifying it and that way it shouldnít hold you up, I wouldnít think. Would you have any objection to having that done I mean as far as slowing you up?


Mr. Keith: Thatís acceptable, yes.


Carl Conner: I personally do not see any problem with the present design that you have provided us and in addition to that it appears to me and I know very little about drainage also but youíre already draining water off of a hard surface so there is not going to be much more if any additional drainage because youíre just replacing asphalt with a roof or at least thatís my opinion.


Mr. Keith: We are increasing a little bit of additional pavement but we are taking that into account.


Carl Conner:Right and with it sitting there at the backside of your property where everyone else can drain into that also and with the County Surveyor saying that itís large enough in size to handle it, I would totally support the plans. I donít have any problem with the project I guess is what Iím saying based upon those reasons.


Don Williams:I agree that itís not that much more.


Phil Baxter:Is there anyone else to comment on this?What are the wishes of the Board?


Carl Conner:Iíll make a motion that we go ahead and approve the plans as presented with no contingencies


Don Williams:I will second the motion even though I do have a small reservation.


Motion was made and seconded all voted aye. Motion passed 3-0.




Jim Niemeyer:The next item is discussion of and brings to a conclusion our study of Epworth Road drainage area.


Phil Baxter:Carl, Don made a comment a while ago that he would like to look through this (Study report) before a decision is made.


Carl Conner:Oh, absolutely.


Don Williams:Heís just going to give us the highlights, I think.


Henry Nodarse:My name is Henry Nodarse, Iím a professional engineer with Bernardin & Lochmueller Engineers of Evansville. I am a Professional Engineer and also a Certified Flood Plain Manager. We were contracted by the Commissioners to study and prepare a drainage study in the area of generally Oak Grove to the North, Grimm Road on the East, Linn Mark Subdivision on the South and the County Line on the West. We presented a final drainage report today, Iím just here to explain briefly what the study includes. I do want to give a recommendation and if you donít have time to read the whole study, its quite detailed and sometimes gets a little technical, but the recommendation summary section is two pages in the back and if you have a few minutes at some time that might be a good chance to read that. We looked at basically the critical drainage facilities in this large area and Iíll just highlight the six or so major items we looked at. We looked at the few retention ponds that work together at the Mansfield Subdivision, Ivy Glen Subdivision and the Interstate Park Subdivision. We analyzed it and we had a survey done and we came out with a recommendation, actually three recommendations. One is to install an emergency overflow spillway for the Ivy Glenn Pond that overflow would either go, we have two options, one would go under I-164 towards the Interstate Office Park basin and the other option is to head South along the East side of I-164 to Howard Ditch near the old Off the Wall building. We have a preference to recommend the latter to take the overflow flow from the overflow spillway down south in a ditch for a while and then it actually will have to go over a little hill which we would recommend to put in a pipe and then put it back in the ditch. Each estimated cost is about the same so thatís the two options for that particular recommendation. Another recommendation in that area is toÖÖ.thereís a berm between the Mansfield Subdivision pond and the Ivy Glen pond that serves as an overflow for the Mansfield pond. There is an area that is about 9-inches lower than the plan called for and we are recommending to basically fill that area and just try to bring the overflow elevation to what the design plans were. It is not a big project but we thought that might be a good thing to do, we have a similar situation on the other side of 164 for the Interstate Office Park basin there is a berm that separates that basin from Howard Ditch in areas that berm is about again 9-inches lower than originally designed and we recommend to just fill that up to design elevation also and possibly that could be done just by maintaining the ditch and taking the spoils out casting it on that berm. Weíre not talking about much dirt but when youíre talking about retention ponds that have water storage height of maybe 2-3 feet, 9-inches is a lot and especially the top part of the pond, itís a lot that youíre losing. So those are 3 recommendations in that area, we also looked at the intersection of Lincoln Avenue and Epworth Road, thereís a outfall pipe that takes water from the Thornburgh Subdivision on the West side of Epworth Road and brings it acrossÖÖIím sorry Thornburgh is on the East side, it brings water which is un-detained under Epworth Road to the West side of Epworth Road in a roadside ditch and that pipe comes perpendicular under the road and as it goes under the road and discharges water on the West side of the road it hits the backside of the roadside ditch and if thereís no water in the ditch it is going to cause some erosion and over time as water gets shot out of that pipe there is going to be some damage on that back side of that ditch and even if you put rip rap it will get eaten away. So, we are recommending to construct a basically an angled outlet at the end of that pipe so it can force it down towards the travel of the roadside ditch. So it doesnít come into the ditch perpendicular it comes in the ditch at more of a 45-degree angle which is much better for the hydraulics.

That is the small recommendation for that area. We go down further South along Epworth Road at the intersection of Epworth Road and Tecumseh Drive there is a subdivision entrance that was built there for Fall Creek there was a small storm sewer system with some 12 & 18 inch storm sewers that 18-inch was constructed and discharges into a pre-existing 12-inch culvert and that pre-existing 12-inch culvert discharges into a 15-inch culvert and that culvert makes a couple of right angle bends before it discharges into the ditch in Colonial Hills Subdivision that pre-existing small storm sewer system we are recommending that to be replaced to handle the discharge from the 18-inch diameter storm sewer that was constructed in the Fall Creek Subdivision. In that area as we move a little to the west right along the boundary from the south boundary of the Fall Creek Subdivision and the north boundary of Colonial Hills Subdivision there was a drainage ditch that was constructed under the Fall Creek Subdivision that ditch heads to the west at this point it has no positive outlet it just sort of puddles around and there are some nice pictures in that report courtesy of Mr. Corressell who lives at the end of Williamsburg Court and actually he is the person who gets most of the puddling. So we are recommending to re-grate that area which would include probably re-grating some of Mr. Correllellís drive-way a part of the Fall Creek Subdivision and then there is a piece of property to the west which is apparently going to be developed at some point, part of that area might have to be re-grated. It could beÖif it works out this ditch that has no positive outfall right now could be discharged into this emergency ditch we were talking about which comes out of the Ivy Glen basin and heads south. That would be one positive outlet and there could be just a matter of extending the ditch a little bit to the west to find some lower ground. It just happens to be that the ditch right now just doesnít go to lower ground it just sort of dies and pretty much flat ground.

There could be some places we could bring that ditch (??) we could bring it down south on the west side of Colonial Hills Subdivision down to Howard Ditch also. We have estimated cost of each particular recommendation.

Our last area of study was Howard Ditch itself and the area from Oak Grove all the way down to where it empties into Colonial Hills Subdivision, itís sort of an extension of a feasibility study that we prepared in 2002 and at that point we were looking at Howard Williams Ditch, the entire length of Howard Williams Ditch and the possibility of reversing the flow of Howard Ditch, currently it flows from basically Colonial Hills Subdivision, it flows north up towards Oak Grove and continues to go north towards Morgan Avenue and it pretty much heads east along Morgan Avenue to Weinsheimer Ditch which is near Chandler. Our 2002 study showed that the flow of the ditch can be reversed from Stahl Road which is just north of the Lloyd Expressway, it can be reversed to head to the south and then once it reverses the flow down towards its initial termination point or nearest termination point Colonial Hills Subdivision it will head south for about a mile towards Willow Pond Ditch. In this study we reviewed that study and we considered actually extending the flow of(inaudible) section up to Oak Grove Road because over the last five years the road plans for Epworth Road and the road plans for Oak Grove Road have been developed and there are showing right now that those roads are going to be constructed above the 100 year elevation. So we can use those as almost a levee to extend that reversal of the ditch so back water from Pigeon Creek wonít go over Oak Grove or Epworth Road. There are a few cross culverts weíd have to look at but even the cross culverts, there seems to be enough topography on the protective side or the west side of Epworth Road of the south side of Oak Grove Road, there is enough topography so these cross culverts that are accepting road side ditch even if back water from Pigeon Creek were to somehow actually back flow under Epworth Road there is enough elevation on the west side of Epworth Road so it wouldnít actually go further to the west. Actually those details will be discussed in the next step, we are proposing a next step for this project which only would concern Howard Ditch. The next step would be to prepare a preliminaryEngineering report which would actually prepare preliminary Engineering plans and preliminary construction estimates and would include some of the details that are needed in construction and actually to follow that type of project through. But this drainage study is complete and weíre willing to revise it if the Commissionerís have any questions or anything else they want to add in here we are willing to add that so I shouldnít say that it is completely final. But the next step beyond this study would beÖ.the logical step would be to prepare a preliminary engineering report which is for large projects which the estimated of our construction to reverse that flow is somewhere around 5 million dollars for a large project like that typically you would do a good detailed preliminary engineering report which would identity specifically permits, particular design problems, specific elevations and so forth. So I just ask the Commissioners to review the report you got today and any questions we can revise it if need be and then if you are willing to accept our proposal in the near future to prepare the preliminary engineering report for your consideration. If you have any questions, Iíll be happy to answer them.


Don Williams:From what you just said and this is a yes or no question, you are stating that the first step in alleviating the flooding in that area is the reversal of Howard-Williams Ditch to go to the river?


Mr. Nodarse:The first, well a lot of these things are related some of these are not related I donít really want to say yes or no. I say itís important but for example the flood of September of 2006 at Ivy Glenn was not due to Howard Ditch, I can say that. That overflow or whatever overflow there is now for Ivy Glenn Subdivision, the pond for the subdivision the only overflow is a culvert under 164 that was only designed to handle road side ditch flow on the east side and there is actually aÖ.itís about the same elevation as the lowest catch basin in Ivy Glenn so as water goes up in the Ivy Glenn Subdivision water might start trickling into that overflow pipe because its not much of a pipe and there is not much water coming out of there. But the water is going to start coming out quicker in that catch basin actually there are two catch basins that are very low and there are some good pictures in that report that shows that. So an overflow spillway at the Ivy Glenn Subdivision would be a very good thing to do at least to prevent flooding on the east side of 164. The reversal of flow on Howard Williams Ditch that would certainly help situations in Colonial Hills Subdivision, it would certainly help the situation at Interstate Park Subdivision, itís tough we did not rank priorities here. Itís a matter of financing and what type of problems can the Commissioners or County handle or how long it takes them to get these problems resolved and things like that. We can rank them if you wish.


Don Williams:I personally would like to see them ranked in the report.


Jim Niemeyer: May I interrupt? We have had those problems and I think there are some stand outs that wonít take long to pick them out and we have a lot of work to do there along I-164 particularly from Outer Lincoln North to the Interstate just west of Deaconess Hospital there is a lot of silting in the and a lot of sloughing that is getting close to those apartments and we are going to have to do a bunch of work in there. Iíve already contacted INDOT those big drain pipes are really silted up and to the extent of about 40% full or more. Iíve checked them all out, Iíve even gone after the beavers, and weíve trapped 3 beavers and 6 muskrats because they are filling up the culverts and it really backs up the water. I think that will take care of the problem for a little while.


Mr. Nodarse: Well, we can certainly prioritize the recommendations, the only thing I see is that five of the recommendations are in the range the construction estimate costs in the range of $5,000.00 to maybe $30,000.00 and then this other one is the reversal of Howard Williams Ditch of $ 4.9 million dollars. Iím sorry, I think 4 of them are in between 5 thousand and maybe 30 thousand then the overflow ditch spillway out of Ivy Glenn is about $120,000.00 and then the reversal of the flow of Howard Ditch is about 4.9 Million. We can rank them but itís difficult to rank $.9 million one firstÖ..


Don Williams:Iím not looking at the money, what Iím looking at is what would have the most effect, that type of ranking. The object is to get rid of the water, I think all of us are committed to do that. I really donít have any other questions until I have a chance to read the report. Thank you for your input.


Carl Conner:I think this is just aÖI just scanned through this, I think it is an excellent report. It gives us something very valuable to work with in addition to that the Board has leaned towards financing of Bond Issue so this would be a good basis for us to ask for and to try to prove our case that we need to have a bond issue approved. However, there are two areas that I donít believe were included in here that I would like to see if the Board would agree. Iíd like to see the scope of this study expanded because we do have a lot of flooding problems in these two areas and one is I believe itís call Candlewood Subdivision.


Jim Niemeyer:Thatís discussed in his report.


Mr. Nodarse: I donít know, Candlewood?


Carl Conner:Candlewood is at the intersection of Frame Road and Hwy 66, I mean those people had water in their houses and everything, so I would like to see that area included in the study and also Iíd like to see Framewood Estates included which is south of the intersection of Lincoln and Frame Road. If I have to put that in the form of a motion, Mr. President, I would make that a motion.


Mr. Nodarse: Well, we can provide you with a proposal for your consideration.


Carl Conner:I would like to see that study be a part of this if thatís all right.


Don Williams:Either that or an addendum one.


Carl Conner:So I would make that in the form of a motion.


Phil Baxter:We have a motion do we have a second?

Don Williams: What exactly is the motion, Iím sorry?


Carl Conner: The motion is that we expand the scope of the study to include Candlewood Subdivision, Framewood Estates off of Frame Road and at Frame Road and Hwy 66.


Don Williams: Iíll second that.


A motion was made and second. All members voted aye, motion passed 3-0.


Phil Baxter:Something else, Iíve asked this question before and Iím really not sure what the answer was, its some months back. Would the cleaning of Pigeon Creek take care of the problem instead of reversing this flow and cover a larger area?


Mr. Nodarse:No, I can say no to that because the Pigeon Creek back water is not going to change. Itís such a large backwater area in volume thatÖ.you would not only have to clean and actually widen Pigeon Creek really, not just clean it. Because the flooding area which is shown on the FEMA maps which is a large large area, that assumes that the Pigeon Creek flows properly. So actually right now with the Pigeon Creek in a bad state your flooding situation is even worse than what the flood maps show and the flood maps show its flooded that whole area between Morgan and Epworth and down Oak Grove and along Howard William Ditch. The backwater elevation from Pigeon Creek isÖ.it wonít get lower. This flood map study was done 1980 or something like that and that was based on the conditions of Pigeon Creek then and now conditions are just worse. If it was re-studied you would actually have a larger flood area and higher water elevations. So maybe by cleaning Pigeon Creek you might get back to what the initial conditions were 15 years ago. Thatís my answer to that.


Phil Baxter: Okay, thank you.


The Board thanked Mr. Nodarse and complimented him on a great report.




Jim Niemeyer:The next discussion is Engelbrecht Place and Tony Parrish.


Mr. Parrish: Tony Parrish 3666 Kattalla Drive in Newburgh. Back in September we came here and gave you guys a little presentation that we had about our subdivision, basically what the gist of it is, Engelbrechtís development has a retention pond and they have diverted the water from the way it used to naturally flow and focused it to one point and now that point is coming into the back of our subdivision. It has been about seven months and we still have the problem, all winter long our back yards never dried out. We are here to know what is going to happen.


Carl Conner:†† Jim, do you want to give them an update? Itís not something that we have not pursued and heíll explain to you how weíve attempted to contact and get cooperation and now my understanding is that itís in our attorneyís hands.

Mr. Parish: I understand that cause I have been working with Jim on a first hand basis and as I talked to him yesterday, he sent a letter out a week before he went on vacation and has not got any response from them. We just want to know, is Engelbrecht and Howleger are they untouchable?


Carl Conner:Absolutely not and that is why Jim has been pursuing the owners and my understanding is we had no positive response from the developers and that is why it was turned over to our attorney because if we have to litigate the matter, weíll litigate the matter. But all thatísÖ.and I know this is difficult but all of that takes time to get processed.


Mr. Parrish:I understand that. We have actually contacted the developers also, I have personally and their response is that itís not their fault. One of their responses was well you live below a hill, so water is naturally going to flow downhill.


Don Williams:Well, itís their retention pond, its outflow is not where itís supposed to be from what I am understanding andÖÖ


Mr. Parrish: Right, plus they have diverted the water where it used to flow to two areas now itís coming in one and the more hard surfaces they have there, roads, drive-ways, houses, its just going to increase our problem. We canít even go in our backyards now, itís terrible. Itís been 7 months, we canít even sell our homes or anything we are sitting on a dead piece of property right now. I just want to know how long this is going to go on, is Engelbrecht and HolwegerÖ.


Don Williams:No, theyíre notÖ


Jim Niemeyer:I think when David gets back Iíll go over and see him Monday.


Phil Baxter:We could talk to our attorney but heís been out of town for a couple of weeks.


Don Williams:And we will get that resolved. This commissioner is for it.


Mr. Parrish: I mean, we could seek attorneyís too, but itís notÖ.it may take five years or something and youknowÖ.


Carl Conner:Well, I donít think at the present time that itís the responsibility of the neighbors to go out and hire an attorney. My understanding is that the basin was not built as approved and weíve went through the process up to using attorney and thatís why we have an attorney, thatís one of the reasons we have an attorney and we have to take it upon ourselves now to prod the attorney to pursue the developers and that is what weíre doing and thatís what we will do. But, I canít make Holweger or Mr. Engelbrecht respond, the only thing I can do is send them letters and go through the process and if they donít want to respond then weíll turn them over to the attorney and ifÖ.as far as Iím concerned if we have to initiate a lawsuit against them for purposes of getting it corrected this Board will initiate a lawsuit.


Mr. Parrish: I noticed that at 4:00 that Engelbrecht has an extension of letter of credit, I mean is there something we could do to kind of hold that back to force them into doing something, itís for their streets and sidewalks? I mean their not being cooperative with this, if they went and extended the retention basin a little bit back there but now I believe they have a breach in their levy cause we constantly have seepage. Jim gave them two options that would fix the problem and they say it cost too much money and they could run a pipe all the way down from their retention basin all the way down to Vann Road and the problem would be solved, but itís too much money they said. We have twelve homes involved in this thatís useless now.


Don Williams:Until itís fixed.


Mr. Parrish: The homeowners are now currently looking a putting a pipe in now at our own expense just so we can get some dry yards. The lady in the first house has water issues too as you could see in the pictures. (he showed the Board some pictures) She put in an underground culvert and now they donít have standing water, but it isnít a back up issue, itís water overflowing from a spill just like if you had a waterfall. Holweger said that itís the creek and the Willow trees causing it to back up and itís not. The water doesnít back up, the water overflows the spillway.


Jim Niemeyer:Itís very wet and very soft. The last time I was out there it looked like there was a leak in the dam.


Don Williams:Well, we need to get action taken.


Phil Baxter:When our attorney gets back next weekÖÖ..


Don Williams:I would make this motion, Okay, I think we need to get input from our attorney but in the meantime I would move that we have our Surveyor go out there and if there is a leak in the dam, then a certified letter be sent to both Mr. Holweger and Mr. Engelbrecht demanding immediate repair of that and then our attorney will go forward with the change to the plans when he gets back from his vacation. Iím not as fed up as you are because I donít have water in my back yard but I do understand.


Phil Baxter:I have a motion on the floorÖ


Carl Conner:Second


The motion was made and seconded and passed with a 3-0 vote.


Don Williams:So if you would do that, Jim. It may not do any good but thatís one more thing we need to do if thereís a breech there.


Carl Conner:Jim you are keeping them up to date in regards to the status of what weíre doing?


Jim Niemeyer:Yes.




Jim Niemeyer:The next thing on the agenda is John Kilmer with Pleasant Ridge.


Mr. Kilmer:Hi, Iím John Kilmer, I live at 7311 Pleasant Ridge Drive and its near the intersection of Pleasant Ridge and Fuquay. We have a ditch coming underneath Fuquay, it runs west of my property and makes a sharp left turn and goes south for 380 feet and flows into Tanglewood Ditch. Now the water is backing up at the corner and flooding all of our property. Not all of it, all the way around the house Iíve had up to 8 inches of water in my garage. I need help someplace, either clean the ditch out or possibly reroute the water on the east side of Fuquay and run it south to Tanglewood Ditch. Iíve got some pictures. (He took the pictures to the Board and explained them)

Now cleaning out Tanglewood Ditch, I think helped a lot but the water canít get there, its coming around the corner and making that sharp 90 degree turn. Itís also washing out part of the easement where a pole is and some pine trees which are going to fall over pretty soon if it keeps going that way. Now I donít know what has changed, but in the last year Iíve had water in the garage 4 times up to 8 inches deep. It hasnít gotten into the house yet but its coming up to the top of the front step. My house is completely surrounded by water or was the last time. Iíve talked to all kinds of people and they tell me the ditch running along the east side of our property is not a legal drain, ok, my other problem is that the ditch along Pleasant Ridge Drive is apparently a legal drain the ditch along the south side is Tanglewood Ditch is a legal drain, if that ditch in the middle is mine and Iíve got to keep it clean then Iíve got a problem with the County running all their water into that ditch and filling it up with sediment and silt and everything else and Iíve got to keep it clean plus I pay taxes. I canít find that correct in any way.


Carl Conner:I was out there last week which youíre well aware ofÖ.


Sean Owen:The only regulated drain near the house isÖÖÖÖÖÖ..


Carl Conner:and I checked to see if that was a legal drain, itís not recorded as a legal drain. So from a legal perspective the Drainage Board or the County has no authority or responsibility to maintain it. Now, I donít know ifÖJim said earlier that he had been out there a couple of days ago and in addition to that looking at the drainage in the road which would be our responsibility. We didnít find anything wrong with the drainage in the road right-of-way. Now if there is something that is feeding into that that is a legal drain that we can correct, we can do that. But to actually go in and work on that ditch that runs on the east side of your home we really have no authority to do that. Then what are my taxes going for, if the County is running that drain all that water down Fuquay from the north into the ditch that runs along Pleasant Ridge Drive into that ditch that belongs to me now do you guys feel that is correct that I should pay property taxes and I should still have to clean out that ditch that the County is running water into?


Sean Owen: The ditch on Fuquay is not a regulated drain. Its not one of the Surveyorís Office or the Drainage Boardís drains that we maintain. The only regulated drain near your house is Tanglewood.


Mr. Kilmer: Okay, is Fuquay a county road?


Someone answered yes


Mr. Kilmer:Okay and the ditches are not the County?


Sean Owen: Iím not sure how thatísÖÖ.


Carl Conner:We didnít look at theÖ.or when I was out there the other day, we didnít look at the drainage along Fuquay Road.


Mr. Kilmer: Its draining off of Fuquay Road coming from the north to the south. It is also drainage somewhere out of Rolling Hills someplace, the only place I know where it starts is this gentleman on Jenner started to dump his pond the other day and completely filled up that ditch beside my house and it started to back up on the road.


Don Williams:†† I just kind of had a sidebar with our Surveyor and he would like to investigate this, he thinks he might be ableÖÖ


Jim Niemeyer:I think we ought to look on the east side of Fuquay, I havenít looked at that either and maybe it could be repaired to where it would drain south and then put it into Tanglewood.


Carl Conner:In the other direction?


Mr. Kilmer: On the east side of Fuquay it is coming out of Rolling Hills someplace I havenít gone up there to find out. But it actually backs us there and floods Fuquay at the same time.


Carl Conner: That would be something that if ifís in the road right-of-way we could probably correct that.


Mr. Kilmer: Is it possible to keep it on the east side of Fuquay down to Tanglewood Ditch?


Carl Conner:Thatís what weíre going to look at.


Don Williams:Thatís why we need to have our Surveyor investigate and look at that possibility.

Phil Baxter:I suggest that the Surveyor and the Highway Department look into this together, weíll look into it probably next week.


Carl Conner: Let me know when you go Jim and Iíll meet you out there.


Jim Niemeyer:Okay


Carl Conner:Because I didnít look at Fuquay the only thing I looked at when I was out there was the ditch east of his house, the drainage in the subdivision there and then we walked to the back of his property and looked at the ditch that you justcompleted that drained out of Tanglewood Subdivision.


Mr. Kilmer: I think a lot of the problem is the water coming west from Fuquay making that 90 degree turn going south.


Phil Baxter:Weíll check into it.


Mr. Kilmer thanked the Board.


Phil Baxter:Anything else


Jim Niemeyer: One more quick one, I hope is Jerry Gill and I failed to get him on the list here. It wonít take very long.




Jerry Gill:Jerry Gill, Town of Chandler. I work on the Storm Water Utility as well as Flood Plain Administrator and a few other hats as you probably can imagine for a small community. Iíve got some pictures here weíve got a large Oak tree right on Whitaker Ditch which is a legal drain through the town and to be honest with you Iím not sure about the interaction between designation of a legal drain in the county versusa town and what our responsibility is. I probably need an education and Iím going to assume that I can get that education through ordinances or do you have some kind of manual, is there a process petition to have ditches made into legal drains, I have several questions in that area. If you can provide me, is it something that I can get on the internet and research and that type of thing?


Jim Niemeyer: No. we donít have that yet, but I have been told that we are not to do work inside the City limits.


Don Williams:You need to check the ordinances.


Phil Baxter:Iíll tell you what our attorney is supposed to be back next week, Jerry and if Jim will he can get with him and see what we can come up with.


Don Williams:If youíve got your questions in writing why donít you give them to Jim and I think that would be the best way to handle it.


Jim Niemeyer:Just send me an e-mail, Jerry.


Mr. Gill:Okay, hereís the picture of the oak tree, itís right on the edge of Whitaker Ditch, if youíve got a moment. Itís washed out as you can tell. My concern is that it will fall right down on that house. ( Mr. Gill kept talking off of the microphone so most was inaudible) something about a tree service costing $995.00 (?) or (back on microphone) for $650.00 they would take it down on the gentlemanís property there on the south side of the ditch and then of course give free fire wood or whatever. So I didnít know if there was any financial assistance that you might be able to provide on this project since it was right on the bank of Whitaker Ditch a legal drain or if thatís something that I should pursue a different way or if its somehow the property owners responsibility. But the velocity of water that come through there, if youíve never been down there, in this last flood it picked up a dumpster in the mobile home trailer part which is on the south side there and set it on State Street. The water came over State Street and which is not unusual and there is a large culvert that has been replaced a couple of times over the years. So essentially my question is can we get any assistance on getting this tree down or is that out of your jurisdiction?


Don Williams:Itís in the town limits, I think itís out of our jurisdiction to be honest with you. I canít give you a statute on it but Iím pretty sure thatís true, but we need to check on it.


Phil Baxter:Weíll find out next week when our attorney comes back.


Jerry Gill:Iíve got a couple of other things, Iíll just make them brief, you know with the highway widening project through Chandler, a lot of that drainage through Lincoln Avenue and all that section of town is being brought down to where Inderrieden Road used to intersect with highway 62, that has been changed of course from a ďYĒ type intersection for public safety reasons into a 90 degree type of intersection, all of that water from that whole area of town is now hitting into that area and there is a ditch that flows in a westerly direction down towards Stollberg that is all grown up with weeds and my concern is that now that weíve funneled everything right down to this one area. I think it goes on out somewhat into the county, now the town does have some of this along hwy 62 about 250 feet back that is in the town. But Iím concerned are we going to get the kind of drainage that we need with all of this going from undercuts and brush and so forth in this ditch because everything now is being funneled into that. I donít know if that is something you might have Jim and I look into, but I am concerned.


Don Williams:Yes, I would put it all down and you and Jim look at those issues and weíll find out what we can legally do.






Phil Baxter:Okay, weíve got claims in the amount of $1464.16.


Don Williams:I move we pay the claims.


Carl Conner:Second


Motion was made and seconded, motion passed 3-0.


Don Williams made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Carl Conner. The motion passed 3-0. Meeting was adjourned.