MAY 9, 2007
The Warrick County Drainage Board met in regular session with President Phillip H. Baxter presiding, also in attendance were Don Williams, Secretary, Jim Niemeyer, Surveyor and David K. Zengler, Attorney for the Board.
Also attending was Sean M. Owen, Deputy Surveyor.
Minutes were recorded and transcribed by Cheryl D. Embry.
Those present in the audience were Shelly Moore, Lori Angles. David Huck, Cheryl Evans, George Meadors, Jr., David A. Reynolds, Kent Brasseale, Dale Roper, Harry Girvin, Ellen Girvin, Jen McKinney, Manny Rydholm, Bill Bivins, Lisa McCool and Jim Morley, Jr.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
The first item on the agenda is the approval of minutes from April 25, 2007.
Don Williams:† Mr. President, I move that we approve the minutes for April 25, 2007.
Phil Baxter:† Iíll second that.
Motion was made and seconded. Motion passed 2-0.
Jim Niemeyer:† Under drainage plan approvals the first one listed is Gourley Estates and there is a request here that it be tabled and postponed.
Don Williams:† Any particular date, Mr. Bivins?
Bill Bivins: What were asking is just until the June meeting and then is we canít get thisÖitís under probate and if thatís not satisfied weíll come back with new notices after that so weíll go to the June 13th meeting.
Don Williams:† Mr. President, I move that we table item 1 in drainage plan approvals until June 13, 2007.
Phil Baxter:† Iíll second that.
Motion was made and seconded. Motion passed 2-0.
Jim Niemeyer:† The next item is Villages P.U.D.
Kent Brasseale: My name is Kent Brasseale with Kahn, Dees, Donovan & Kahn on behalf of the petitioner.
Ken Favor: Ken Favor with custom homes.
Phil Baxter:† In looking at this the drainage goes into one area.
Excuse me, let me just say that this development is north of the
Phil Baxter: Itís residential all around this area and the retention basin where does it drain from or to?
Jim Morley, Jr.:† Thereís an area drain and an underground pipe sewer system† that runs through the adjoining subdivision that this ground currently drains to and so we took our drain system collected it and put it in that underground system. Then we also didÖ..Warrick County requires the 50-year storm and we are storing in excess of 100-year storm, currently this ground kind of drains off in all different directions and goes onto the neighbors and eventually into this system and what we did, we put a drainage swale down, if I may approach?
We put a drainage swale down here (pointing out on drainage plan) and down here, currently this ground drainage over here and these neighbors donít have a very good drainage ditch in their back yard, it just kind of ponds there so weíll be intercepting the water that used to drain on them and cause problems in their backyard taking it down here, holding it in this basin which is sized for the 100-year storm instead of 50 and then it will be coming out through this pipe right here into an existing area drain and then a 30-inch pipe. It comes down this way and eventually hits Angel Ditch down here.
Don Williams:† Almost all of that is impervious very little grass there.
Mr. Morley:† The proposed, yes and on the drainage calcs we used the developed C has a high runoff co-efficient and all that was accounted for in establishing this basin. This basin is a larger basin per acre that you would typically see for a development. But what we did we were able to catch all of our water by putting the swale in here and putting a swale in here and the road drains down to two curve inlets and they dump into the basin also. I donít rememberÖthis pipe here that dischargesÖÖ
Sean Owen:† It discharged less than what was required.
Jim Niemeyer:† It discharged 1.62Ö.
Mr. Morley:† Yes, and I think it all comes through a 6-inch hole, so basically this 5 acres is now drained into a 6-inch hole. An orifice played in a discharge pipe, so youíre taking 5 acres that used to sheet flow into everyoneís back yards and create problems. Weíre turning that around and putting that into a 100-year retention basin which again is twice what weíre required to do by code. We are discharging less than we are required to by code and then also send it all through a 6-inch orifice.
Don Williams:† Is this R-1 or R-1A, the zoning on this?
Mr. Morley:† Seeking to be R P.U.D which will come back to the Planning Commission tonight and then the Commissioners next month.
Don Williams:† Youíve done an awful lot of work if the zoning doesnít get changed, it what it looks to me like.
Mr. Morley:† Hopefully it gets changed. Yes, weíve had three meetings with the neighbors and in addition to this outside of any public meetings. This is the first public meeting but weíve had 3 meetings with the neighbors and tried to address all the drainage concerns because there were some and rightfully so. Theyíve got some problems with the drainage that comes off of this field now coming and standing in their back yards, so we felt that we were able to intercept that water, collect 100% of our water, stored twice what needed to be stored and discharged less than we could discharge. So I feel from a drainage standpoint it should be a real benefit.
Don Williams:†† Well, Iím not satisfied, what I want to do is, I would like to have Steve who is a licensed surveyor, I would like for him to look at these plans and I want verification that that 30-inch pipe is going to get the water, cause we have too many drainage problems in this area without being sure and I want to be sure. Iím not necessarily against the project but I want to make sure about the drainage.
Phil Baxter:† Is there anyone else here who would like to speak for or against this project?
Lady:† Sir, I think I live at the house that this gentleman was referring to that has the most water problems.
Don Williams:† Maam, could you give us your name and address.
Cheryl Evans:† Cheryl
Don Williams had her point out on the map where she is located.
Ms. Evans: Right here and all the water accumulates right here, these people here have built up their yard because this was all backed up, these people built up their yard and weíve not built ours up and everybody else elevation is higher so it all sits right here.
Don Williams:† And this will take care of her water, Mr. Morley, you think?
Mr. Morley:† Yeah
Don Williams:† †How will it do that if youíre building a berm down through there?
Mr. Morley:† Because currently there is a high point in this ground and this water drains this way and what weíre going to do is, weíre going to install a concrete lined ditch all the way down this property line, so the water that used to come all the way into Westwood Subdivision now will stop at this ditch, hit the ditch and come down here into this retention basin and then discharge underground through the pipe. As you can see there is a 24-inch pipe coming in to a 30-inch pipe, a 30-inch pipe has significantly more capacity than 24 and weíre only adding a 6-inch pipe to the 24. So that from a capacity standpoint I feel that thereís not a problem there. The pipe coming into the 30 is 6-inches in diameter less but from an area standpoint 6-inches in diameter is a whole lot more area that what that 6-inch flow rate will take up coming out of this pipe here. Weíre doing the same thing for her as we are for them,† this water kind of comes off and comes off and by intersecting that with the ditches instead of getting that couple acres of water that they typically would have had coming on to them, the only thing that will be in their back yard will be what falls on their yard. Weíll catch all the runoff from our developer from our clients development starting all the way up here (pointing on the map) and these two concrete ditches and then from a capacity standpoint of that pipe again, itís a 24-inch pipe dumping into a 30-inch pipe and weíre only adding a 6-inch pipe with the water, if I had my calculator I could tell you exactly the area, but the 30-inch has substantially more than 6-inch capacity. We knew this was an infield project that drainage is always a concern thatís why we went ahead and decreased our allowable runoff below what we could have done and then in addition to that stored the 100 year storm instead of the 50-year storm. The 50-year storm would have been a considerably smaller basin, but we chose to go in and put the larger basin in. Because this developer in no way wants to harm any of the adjoining property owners through this process so that is why we are doing everything we can to make sure that doesnít happen. I really feel that the 30-inch down stream from there has the capacity and you guys took a look at our runoff coefficient I mean if I open the report but itís the runoff coefficient of about a 70% or something like that I think versus probably a 30 or 40%, so we use those inflated runoff coefficients to size our basin and then obviously the discharge is set up at what the 5-year undeveloped was and then we went below that on top of that. So, from a drainage standpoint, I feel like itís a really good project.
Don Williams:† Our action or inaction wonít hinder you from your next meeting, will it?
Mr. Morley: I think it does actually, if we stop here then we stop the rest of the day, correct?
Sherri Rector:† Iím not sure.
Don Williams:† When we talk about drainage and we talk about re-zoning, Iím sorry I donít see a whole lot of relationship.
Sherri Rector: As I told you earlier and as Iíve told Jim Morley, I donít agree with our ordinance with the way itís set up. The new ordinance doing this I think we should change it to where just have a plan and then you come back after the re-zoning and file primary plat and street and drainage plans, we need to change it that way, right now itís not that way. I will talk to the Board and try to see if they can go ahead with the re-zoning aspect of it and then deal with the street and drainage next month.
Don Williams:† I just want to verify. I appreciate your presentation but I didnít hear any guarantees, I heard the word ďI feelĒ and I donít really like to go on feelings, Mr. Morley I do appreciate your expertise though donít get the wrong idea, but I would like a second voice from the other side taking a look at it.
Mr. Morley: In the past and correct me if Iím wrong on this, We also go to the Planning Commissioner tonight for the primary plat approval not just the rezoning, in the past they have been hesitant to hear it subject to, but a plat is what weíre hearing tonight.
Don Williams:† That would set you back two weeks on the plat, well they donít meet in two weeks, I forgot.
Sherri Rector:† No, it would set it back a month which the re-zoning would not come to you until June 13th. Anyway, so what I will try to do is get a recommendation from the Planning Commission on the re-zoning tonight and then weíll do the plats and every thing on the 13th and come back for the street and drainage to get it all done.
Don Williams:† I appreciate that.
Mr. Morley: If it is.
Sherri stated she knows this is the first one so she is going to try and get them to go with the re-zoning recommendation tonight and continue the plat until the 13th.
Don Williams:† †And we could have our Engineer/Surveyor check it out and we should be able to handle it in two weeks. Come back to the Drainage Board on the 23rd, thatís our next meeting. Itís the area and I just want validation, I guess of your research.
Sherri Rector: And then what Iím saying is youíll get this in two weeks, everything is fine, the drainage and the entrance and then on June 19th you will come to the Commissioners on the rezoning on the 13th and then the Planning Commission that night for the plat approval, is what I am going to try to get the Board to do. So your not going to be held over any longer than what youíre going to be anyway. Do you see what Iím saying?
Don Williams:† You can explain to your Board tonight that we justÖ.since there are some significant drainage problems in the area we wanted some validation and our waiting shouldnít have any affect on what they do tonight as far as the rezoning. But we would appreciate their recommendation so we can act on it and not hold these gentlemen up one way or the other theyíll know.
I would move that we table this for 2 weeks until the 23rd until our Surveyor/Engineer, Mr. Sherwood can check out and particularly, Jim make sure that the 30-inch pipe will get the water carried away.
Seconded by Phil Baxter. Motion carried 2-0.
HOLD HARMLESS-ALVEY SIGNS FOR HABITAT
Jim Niemeyer:† The next item on the agenda is a Hold Harmless, Alvey signs.
Jen McKinney: Hi, Iím Jen McKinney from Alvey Signs and we are requesting to put signage up for Habitat of Warrick County. Lockwood Ditch runs along their property and weíre 65-feet from the middle of the ditch to where the sign is going to be placed.
Don Williams:† Is this a temporary or would it be permanent?
Don Williams:† Is it going to be in concrete or anything?
Ms. McKinney: Yes, it is.
Phil Baxter:† Do you have any problem with this?
Jim Niemeyer:† No
Don Williams:† Is there a Hold Harmless involved here?
Jim Niemeyer:† Yes
Don Williams:† †I donít know thatÖI personally donít think there is a problem with this, but you have to understand that if for some reason we would have to get in there and the sign had to go, weíre not going to replace your sign, thatís why we want a Hold Harmless.
Ms. McKinney:† Yes, I have one.
Don Williams:† I would make a motion Mr. President, that we approve Alveyís sign request providing that the Hold Harmless is in place. Seconded by Phil Baxter, motion passed 2-0.
SITECOM & INDIANA AMERICAN WATER-EDWARDS DITCH:
Jim Niemeyer:† The next item for discussion will be from Mr. Nathan Mominee with Sitecom.
Nathan Mominee: I am here to amend some plans for a water line bore that were approved on the January 10th meeting. We are going to go from directional bore to a steel casing bore, so we just wanted to clarify that with the Drainage Board.
Don Williams:† I have two questions, one is how far below the flow line of the ditch are you going to be with your bore? I understand that itís three (3) feet is that correct?
Mr. Mominee: As stated before it was going to be 3-feet but actually with the new plan itís going to be deeper than that and I would have to review the plan to see but I know that itís considerably deeper now that weíre doing the steel casings.
Don Williams:† And you are willing to put a Hold Harmless in place?
Mr. Mominee: The previous Hold Harmless is still sufficient after the amendment.
Don Williams:† I have no further questions, I would move that we approve the request to bore under Edwards Ditch providing we have the Hold Harmless. Seconded by Phil Baxter, motion passes 2-0.
EASEMENTS AND/OR ENCROACHMENTS:
ALANTON PARK SUBDIVSION:
Jim Niemeyer:† The
next item concerns encroachments and easements and the first one on the list is
Shelly Moore of
Don Williams:† If you would please state your name and address for the record.
Shelly Moore:† Shelly
Don Williams: To everybody with these requests to put things in an easement, everybody understands that if there should be an emergency we may have to tear it out, with that understanding, Mr. President I would move that we approve Ms. Mooreís request.
Second by Phil Baxter. Motion carried 2-0.
The next person is George Meadors,
Don Williams:† Mr. Meadors, do you have the same understanding?
Mr. Meadors: Yes
Don Williams:† Mr. President I would move that we approve Mr. Meadors request.
Seconded by Phil Baxter, Motion passed 2-0.
Jim Niemeyer:† The next one is Mr. David Huck.
Don Williams:† Same understanding Mr. Huck, but I have a question for you. If I understand this correctly you are simply rebuilding a structure that was in the exact same place before the tornado?
Mr. Huck:† That is correct.
Don Williams:† Our policy has pretty well been to let people put that back, but you do understand that it is only 52-feet. I donít see a problem with that but..with that understanding I would move that we approve Mr. Huckís request. Seconded by Phil Baxter, motion passed 2-0.
Jim Niemeyer:† The
next person is Mr. Mark Slow,
Mr. Slow: You might have to speak up, I am hard of hearing.
Don Williams:†† You understand the same understanding that it being in an easement there could be some type of emergency where we would have to take it out.
Mr. Slow:† Correct
Don Williams:† With that understanding, I move that we approve Mr. Slowís request. Phil Baxter seconded the motion. Motion passed 2-0.
The next person is Lori Angles,
Don Williams:† Same understanding and you are Ms. Angles?
Ms. Angles:† Yes that is correct.
Don Williams:† Mr. President, I would move that we approve the Angles request for a fence in the easement.
Seconded by Phil Baxter, motion carried 2-0.
Jim Niemeyer:† The last one is Mr. McCool who is being represented by Mr. Vanada.
Lisa McCool: Iím Lisa McCool, Mr. McCoolís wife and this is my dad, James Vanada and he is going to speak for me.
James Vanada:† I live
Don Williams:† Now is that from the edge of the bank or from the centerline, the 52-feet?
Mr. Vanada:† I believe its from the center line. The situation here is the land across the creek on the other side is approximately 5-feet above the creek and is readily accessible. So the question is that if there is ever maintenance needed on that creek whether accessibility from 5-feet above the creek which we own would be a whole lot easier than from way up where they would like to build a house on top of a bank.
Don Williams:† Now that only infringes the easement by 15-feet, am I correct?
Mr. Vanada:† Correct.
Don Williams:† Why canít you just move the house 15-feet away from the ditch, Iím curious here.
Mr. Vanada:† I understand, thereís a stand of trees there on the edge of a field and they would like to be in the shade of the trees as opposed to being out in the field in the sun.
Phil Baxter:† I can understand that.
Don Williams:† I can understand too, Weíll have about what 60-feet?
Mr. Vanada: Yes, Iíve also got a picture here, this is the land across the creek and they want to build their house (showing on plan) about here,
Don Williams:† Now is that from the center line?
Mr. Vanada:†† Yes
Don Williams:† So how far are we talking from the edge of the bank, about 45-feet?
Mr. Vanada:† This picture was taken from down in this area where the topo map shows the bank is more gradual. One nice feature of this land which has been in the family for over 100 years, the bank here is high enough that the drainage is back away from it so it doesnít wash over that bank. Thatís not quite true a little farther up, but in that area there is no natural flow of water over the bank.
Phil Baxter:† Do you own the other side also?
Mr. Vanada: I am the manager and 20% owner, my two brothers, two sisters and myself own it.
Don Williams:† Is there anything on this side or is it clear on this side?
Mr. Vanada:† It is wooded over to a field and there is farm road access to a field and then this is kind of a low wooded area about 5-feet above the creek.
Don Williams:† How far back does that wooded area go? Well, What Iím thinking about now to me it looks like the creek is in pretty good physical condition as far as water flow, unless some beavers get in there or something, it looks like it should be okay for a number of years.
Mr. Vanade: I believe this map is reasonably accurate here that this is about the field and this is all a fairly lowÖ.
Don Williams:† So youíre saying that if we need to clean it, it wouldnít be any problem coming in from the field side.
Mr. Vanada: No, itís not a problem from the other side, itís a question of would you ever need to be 35-feet above the creek to work on it, when itís accessible from the other side
Don Williams: †No, it wouldnít be logical because we have 75-feet on that other side also. So are you making the request or is Mrs. McCool making the request?
Mr. Vanada:† Well, I own the land right at the moment, but they are about to own it, so itís my request that it be granted for them so they can purchase the land and build a house there.
Don Williams:† Mr. President, I would move that we allow the encroachment that Mr. McCool has requested.
Phil Baxter seconded the motion. Motion was passed 2-0.
Jim Niemeyer: Mr. Roper was in our office over a week ago and we failed to put him on the list and I will take full responsibility.
Dale Roper:† Iím Dale
Roper, I live at
Jim Niemeyer:† We were out there this morning, is that berm going to be between the orange flags?
Mr. Roper: Thatís correct. Its high enough that the ÖÖÖÖ.
Don Williams:† So weíre just discussing a natural drain here, an easement and it looks like the south side on the other side of the drainage from the house youíre not going to put trees on that side just the one side.
Mr. Roper: Just the one side yes, I actually have a drawing if you would like to look at that.
Don Williams:† Mr. President, I would move that we approve Mr. Roperís request.
Phil Baxter seconded the motion. Motion was passed 2-0.
Don Williams:† I move we pay the claims.
Seconded by Phil Baxter. Motion passed 2-0.
Don Williams:† I
have a question, Jim, if I could Mr. President. I will try to be brief. Have we
got any feedback yet on the drainage problem coming from Engelbrecht and
Holweger there off
Jim Niemeyer:† No, I went out there, I took Mr. Sherwood out there and we reviewed it again. I have prepared a whole series of steps that we need to undertake.
Don Williams:† I would like to know exactly what needs to be done and I will personally talk to those developers and see if we can get it done, if not, I guess weíll be seeing them in court, it sounds like. I would like to avoid court and those expenses if we can so I am willing to talk to them. But I need a set of bullets so I know exactly what needs to be done. Have you tried to reach those developers and still no luck?
Jim Niemeyer:† The last time I made contract was just through a letter.
Don Williams:† And they didnít respond?
Jim Niemeyer:† No
Don Williams:†† I would like a copy of that letter if I could, Jim as well as your seven steps and with your permission Mr. President, Iíll try and contact Mr. Holweger or Mr. Engelbrecht some time next week as that needs to be taken care of.
Sherri Rector asked if all the encroachments and easements had been approved. The Board answered that they had, they just hadnít been signed as yet. It was also stated that Alvey Sign had been approved also.
David Reynolds:† My
name is David Reynolds, I live at
Don Williams:† There is nothing yet as they havenít presented anything to us. But as you know I was out there and looked at your property and the only thing that is going to satisfy me is if they make a good clear single drain where it can be drained and then Iím still not sure about the approval as there is a lot to consider there. But your request is an appropriate request.
Don talked to some people in the audience about their
problem but it was not mentioned where the problem was. A gentleman in the
audience stated that the holes were getting bigger. Don also asked Jim where he
was at on that problem as the Highway department was also involved. (
Sean Owen:† Itís not a
regulated drain until it gets up to the road (
Don Williams:† Well, that doesnít matter take care of it.
Manny Rydholm:† Manny
Jim answered that the only thing that has happened is that they did insert some downspouts in a storm drain. He also stated that another orifice needs to be put into the detention pond. He will check on it this week. He has not received anything back on the legal drain status other than a note from Schnucks that they were taking it under advisement. He has not heard anything from Ped-cor. He has received a signed agreement from Wyntree Villas Group.
Don Williams:† Really if Schnucks signs off on it where we can get at it from one side weíre good to go. When youíre dealing with Ped-Cor are you sending them certified mail?
Jim Niemeyer: No, I havenít.
Don Williams:† How about re-contacting them, it would probably be bucks well spent.
Phil Baxter:† Anything you hear please contact Mr. Rydholm.
Mr. Rydholm asked about the Edwards Ditch study and any deadlines?
Jim answered that they are finishing a summary on that.
Don Williams:† Mr. President, I move that we adjourn.
Seconded by Phil Baxter. Motion carried 2-0.