February 13, 2008
The Warrick County Drainage Board met in regular session with President Phillip H. Baxter presiding, also in attendance were Nova Conner, Vice-President; Don Williams, Secretary; James E. Niemeyer, Surveyor and David K. Zengler, Attorney for Board.
Also present were Sean M. Owen, Deputy Surveyor.
Minutes were recorded and transcribed by Cheryl D. Embry.
Those present in the audience were Ron Nelson.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Don Williams:† Move to approve.
Nova Conner:† Second.
Motion was made and seconded to approve minutes. Motion carried 3-0.
KARN DITCH BID OPENING:
Phil Baxter: Okay, Jim do you have some bids?
Jim Niemeyer: I gave everything to David Zengler.
David Zengler: We have a bid. From Bigge Excavating quote for brush grinding on Karn Ditch, grind all brush and trees on south side of ditch and slope to 2:1, remove all hanging trees on north side of ditch and grind, total cost 2000 feet @ $5.50 per foot which would total $11,000.00.
Don Williams: Thatís pretty high.
Jim Niemeyer:† Iíd like to make a comment, this ditch is deeper than this ceiling is tall and itís going to take all that he can and itís got some big heavy trees in it and itís also 2000 feet in length and if you get to the back end it gets as wide or more as this room.
Sean Owen: It is starting to remind us of Allen Ditch. It
empties into the pits that
Jim Niemeyer: It carries all the way down into there and everything that we cut needs to be taken out and grounded either buried or hauled away.
Don Williams:† Everything has to be hauled away?
Jim Niemeyer:† If we can bury it, weíll bury it, weíll find room to bury it or we can grind it. Iíd rather grind it down to pulp to about an inch and a half in diameter or less and bury it or haul it out and Henry will take it to, heís got a place to put all that stuff.
Phil Baxter: The root wads are the big deal.
Jim Niemeyer: Weíre going to try and leave as much as we can but there are trees that are ready to go into the ditch they are ready to fall.
Sean Owen: With this ice storm they are probably already in the ditch.
Nova Conner:† Jim, is this the oneÖ..
Jim Niemeyer: Itís off
Don Williams:† Whatís the total amount, we need the total amount?
David: $11,000.00, also there is another paragraph. Place the erosion control matting furnished by Surveyor price per square yard 50 cents to install.
Phil Baxter: Whatís the total on that?
David Zengler: He doesnít have a total.
Jim Niemeyer: I just told him to give us a cost estimate to install it and then weíll go ahead and design the matting to fit the slope and the height of the ditch.
Phil Baxter:† That slope could be 2:1 probably 30 to 35 feet times 1000 that would be 70,000 feet?
Nova Conner:† Wow, 70,000 feet?
Phil Baxter: It would be 70,000 square feet, Iím right arenít I? Iím just using a number of 35 times 2000, that would be 70,000.
Nova Conner: But he said $.50 per
David Zengler:† Fifty cents per square yard.
Jim Niemeyer: We donít need to put anything in there we could just sow it, but I think we ought to retain that option because the soon we start stabilizing these ditches the better.
Phil Baxter: Jim what do you think about going ahead and approving the other work and let us think about this because itís going to be awhile before they can do that anyway.
Jim Niemeyer: Thatís fine, I donít have any problem with that at all, weíre not ready to get in there just yet.
Phil Baxter: I really donít have a problem on the price with the tree removal, but I would like to wait on the other one if you donít mind.
Jim Niemeyer: He was the only one to show up at the bid.
Sean Owen: We sent one to Henry, one to Jerry Aigner and one to I believe Terry Johnson.
Nova Conner: How long did they have to respond?
Jim Niemeyer: About a week or ten days.
Nova Conner: You didnít have anyone call to request that they didnít have enough time?
Jim Niemeyer:† No, they just didnít want to do it.
Phil Baxter: As far as the grinding, there are very few people in this area that has the grinders.
Nova Conner: And that wasÖÖÖ.
Nova Conner: I mean the name of the ditch.
Sean: Karn Ditch
Nova Conner: No, I mean the name of the company.
Sean: Bigge Excavating
Nova Conner: Well, I just make a motion that we approve the bid for Karn Ditch for $11,000.00.
Don Williams:† Second
Motion was made and seconded to approve bid of $11,000.00 from Bigge. Motion carried 3-0.
EDWARDS DITCH SIGN REQUEST:
Jim Niemeyer: Mr. Nelson is requesting to put a sign in our legal drain. Would you state your name and address please?
Ron Nelson: Ron Nelson
Nova Conner: Now exactly where is this?
Mr. Nelson: Arbor Pointe across from Rabbit Run.
Nova Conner:† How big is the sign.
Mr. Nelson:† Itís 12 X 40, we havenít contacted the next property owner but we have all the state permits and everything and then they found out there was the legal drain that for some reason they oversaw. But basically weíre just askingÖ..it will be a pole but everything else you should be able to maintain. Itís the air space weíre basically asking for.
Nova Conner: Come here and show me exactly where it is because I want to make sureÖ.
Don Williams:† Well, we have 60-feet between the sign and the drain so I donít have any problem with it. Itís not going to impede any water.
Mr. Nelson: No, basically weíll dig about a 4-foot hole and the pipe with be 36-inches in diameter everything else will be air space.
Nova Conner: And as far as everything else it has been approved, I mean everything that is needed.
Mr. Nelson: Iíve got state approval and it meets all the County requirements. That will be the only other sign that you will able to put between Libbert and Epworth because all the spacingÖI mean thereís like 2 or 3 places where this sign could go but that would space out everything else between Libbert and Epworth.
Phil Baxter: What is the will of the Board?
Don Williams:† I move to approve.
Phil Baxter; Do I hear a second?† Is there a second?† Second.
Motion was made and seconded to allow sign in Edwards Ditch. Motion passed 2-1 with Commissioner Conner voting nay.
Don Williams:† Mr. President, we have claims in the amount of $1,269.52. Iíd like to move that we approve those.
Nova Conner:† Second.
Motion was made and seconded to pay claims. Motion carried 3-0.
Phil asked if there was anything else to come before the meeting.
COMBINATION OF MEETINGS:
Nova Conner:† Is this not the place that we can again talk about the issue of combining meeting.
Don Williams:† Iím will to talk about it for a couple of minutes. I do not want to combine Boards.
Nova Conner; Okay, thatís fine.
Don Williams:† I would think that the best idea would be to have concurrent meetings where both Boardís meet at the same time with a split agenda, one taking care of drainage and one taking care of Ö..and that way it wonít be any trouble keeping the budget and everybody can stillÖ..I think the fact is we would pretty much still be the same. Where somebody has a drainage issueÖ.
Nova Conner:† But weíll be having them at the same at firstÖÖand thatísÖ..
Don Williams:† We would open both Boards at the same time we wouldnít have to sign any kind of agreement or anything and people who have an issue with either the Drainage Board or the Storm Water Board could meet.
Nova Conner: I feel really comfortable with that Don, because even if itís at the same time because I just want to make sure because I did that with Bobby today and he said wait was that Stormwater or wasÖ.I said well I think thatís why I think if we have them together it will be less confusing.
Don Williams:† And there will be times when the issue will affect both Boards.
Nova Conner Right and some will.
Don Williams:† Is there any legal problem with having concurrent meetings that you know of?
David Zengler: I mean that was sort of my idea and I also did talk before I sent you the memo to Doug Welp and he agreed that we could do that. It is sort of the same thing with the Council and Commissioners, youíre having a joint meeting, so he and I didnít think there was any problem and I think we both agreed rather than doing it as a formal procedure of joining them at least for the near future. If not always, but thereís no legal problem with that. I guess my suggestion would be if thatís the way youíre going at the next weeks storm water meeting you might vote on that.
Don Williams:† I think we can do it today, I think it was Sherry or was it you that the Drainage Board needs to meet next week also because there were some Area Plan issues that have to be brought to us before our meeting next week. So I guess we could and we have to advertise for that if weíre going to hold a Drainage Board Meeting next week too.
What do you think, Mr. President?
David Zengler: Or you could just not adjourn this meeting, donít adjourn just vote to recess and then tell them to meet next week. I think if you go to the meetings where you have both Boards meeting at the same time, I think weíre going to have to advertise that since youíve been meeting at different times.
Don Williams:† Well, the Drainage Board could vote on that now and then the Storm Water Management Board could vote on it next week. Then the following week we could advertise it and do it.
David: Yes cause I donít think you could get it in effect until March anyway.
Don Williams:† And if we are going to do concurrent both boards we should do it on the second and third weeks like we always have the drainage, I think that we probably ought to start the meeting at 2:30 instead of 3:00 that will give us an hour and a half. There will be some days where we will be stretching everything to done by Commissionerís meeting time.
Nova Conner: I donít have a problem with that.
David: You said second and third, did you mean second and forth?
Don Williams:† Yes, thatís exactly what I mean. Thank you.
Phil Baxter: It will be the second and third this month.
Nova Conner: Let me make sure I understand. Youíre saying that okay when we do this when we have the meeting can we just open it saying Drainage slash Stormwater or do we have to close weíre going to discuss drainage and that will be the surveyor giving† his report and Bobby will be giving us everything for Stormwater so we know what projects are that are going to overlap or we can maybe some Stormwater to go with yours then we can just close the meeting and that will be the second or the fourth? And fourth.
David: I think the tricky part, at least initially is going to be when you vote. I guess with Phil being chairman of both of them I think weíre just going to have to make sure weíre voting as the Drainage Board or Stormwater.
Don Williams:† Thatís what I said we have one agenda for both boards, we have like Drainage Board business or Stormwater business or vice-versa.
Nova Conner: That to me just seems so practical, it really does. And if there is a quality issue in a legal drain then it would be a joint thing probably anyway.
David: I think it would be a Stormwater, well you know one of the reasons why we have to work more on Stormwater is exactly what Stormwater is going to take care of. Stormwater might just do all quality issues other than, unless itís in aÖÖ..draining in a legal drain.
Don Williams:† It wouldnít be necessarily just quality issues there is also quantity issues.
I would move then that we hold concurrent Stormwater and Drainage Board meetings starting the 27th of this month, thatís two weeks from today and let those meetings be held at 2:30.
Nova Conner:† Second.
Motion was made and seconded to hold concurrent meetings. Motion passed 3-0.
Phil Baxter: Anything else?
David: My only drawbackÖÖI think we can publish that quick, I mean we canít publish until after our next meeting.
Don Williams: It only takes 48 hours.
David: Well, yeah thatís true I mean yeah we can do that.
Don Williams:† If we do it on Wednesday and have it advertised the following Thursday weíre good. I think we can get it there. We just have to get it over there Thursday morning to the Standard. Cheryl can run that fast as long as thereís not ice.
Phil Baxter: I think as long as itís there Friday before noon.
Nova Conner: As far as the you know when I talked with Bobby briefly he was talking about the ordinances and what he really sees, you know the best way to go with that. Can that beÖ..he really feels like in terms of meeting with us and for us to really look at that cause he has some really questions in terms of some of the ordinances that we previously have or that Commonwealth is recommending and he wants to set down and look at that. So we can eventually make a decision on which one weíre going with.
Don Williams:† I understand that because one of them, one of the proposed ordinances was by Commonwealth and the other one was by BLA and the Drainage Board has always approved drainage plans for subdivisions and I really donít want to see that changed.
Nova Conner;† You mean in terms of youíre wanting Commonwealth, is that what youíre saying?
Don Williams:† No, Iím not saying that, Iím saying that Iím not sure I want to change which Board does that. We just have to look at that and decide which one weíre going to go with.
Nova Conner:† I think thatís the thing Iím saying is could we look at that and you know just in terms of looking at having a meeting soon to do that, I donít know if we need to make it a meeting next week just to look at that because that is going to affect the role of the Drainage/Stormwater. So if there is a date that maybe we can all look at it with Bobby so we canÖ..and I donít know if we canÖhow we do that if it needs to be done.
Don Williams:† I think we need a caucus if you want to.
David: You can do a caucus.
Don Williams:† As long as you donít make a decision.
Phil Baxter Okay, can I get a motion to adjourn?
Don Williams:† No. I would move that we recess.
Nova Conner: Weíre going to recess until next week.
Don Williams:† See what we have to do is there will be some Area Planning business that this Board has to take care of next week and we donít have to advertise if we just recess until next Wednesday. So I move that we recess this meeting until next Wednesday.
Phil Baxter: Oh okay
Nova Conner: Second.
Motion was made and seconded to recess. Motion carried 3-0.